Missouri House Scores a Big Victory for the 2nd Amendment

It’s increasingly rare to see the government – state or federal – make the right call even in the face of well-funded opposition. That’s one of many reasons why the Missouri House of Representatives are PatriotNewsDaily heroes this week. After Democrat Governor Jay Nixon vetoed a comprehensive and protective gun-rights bill, it seemed all hope was lost for 2nd Amendment freedoms in the Show Me state. But now the Missouri House has overridden Nixon’s veto, putting the bill on a screaming path towards becoming law.

The bill is meant to ensure that state residents with concealed-carry permits can bring their firearms anywhere in the state, regardless of what individual municipalities have to say about it. It even goes further, lowering the minimum age to 19 for those wanting to get a concealed-carry permit and permitting school districts to arm teachers. Finally, the bill makes it illegal for police to confiscate guns from people unless placing them under arrest.

All in all, it’s a great day for gun rights in America.

One representative – Rick Brattin of Harrisonville – went so far as to recommend that all Missouri state residents be armed. “We live in a world that’s evil, that wants to harm each and every one.”

Is he wrong? Keep in mind that this is a state that has seen considerable violence over the last couple of months as passions ran strong in Ferguson. Would you have wanted to be in the middle of those riots without a gun to protect yourself? What right do the police have to roll in on tanks and then claim that American individuals shouldn’t be armed? Hell, if Ferguson proved anything, it’s that we should be more vigilant than ever when it comes to our self-defense. The government is one scary beast when it wants to be, as is an unruly mob.

According to news reports, it appears Democrat Stacey Newman wins the award for most political cluelessness. In her argument against the bill, she insisted that it was actually a vote for big government since it would put state law above individual cities. No, Ms. Newman, that’s not what we mean when we talk about big government. Try again.

She did. Grasping at straws, she invoked the 2008 Kirkwood shootings, a dark day in Missouri state history. On that day, five city council members were killed by a man who had long battled with the council over construction contracts. Newman opined that the bill would prevent municipalities from banning firearms from places like Kirkwood City Hall. Do liberals like her even listen to themselves talk? Does she really believe that Cookie Thornton wouldn’t have killed those people had there been a firearms ban in effect? The idiocy of these people never ceases to astound.

Anyway, Newman and the libs didn’t win this day, and that’s a good thing. It’s a good thing for Missouri, a good thing for people who still care about the Constitution, and a great thing for law-abiding gun owners. Good job, Missouri House.

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  1. Good Deal Missouri, keep up the good work! let’s get All 50 States involved!

    • Little Bright Feather

      49 States. Hawai’i seceded back in Jan 2012.


      Very short. 4:45

      • Forget the Peoples’ Republics of CA, MA, NY as well as HI.

        • shame about Kalifornia. it was the invading trash and scum from new York and new jersey that ruined the state. now the same trash has moved to formerly great cities like Denver colo. and boise Idaho.

          • Oklahoma and Texas, Missouri, where the economy has been driven into the ground by federal overreach, like the the CA, Federally created Drought for the Farmers up north.

          • The “invading trash” were welcomed by liberal politicians who could groom them for votes. Their disrespect for our country and it’s laws were prerequisites to becoming Democrats,

            Those prerequisites also qualify them to teach in our universities and become union members

        • No, we insure the people in those states that want to own weapon do so. Not all Californian’s, Massachusetts, New Yorkers and HI are liberals or illegals.

          We help them file suit in those States….

        • And Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Virginia, etc, etc.

      • NoMoreMarxistsInDC

        Not so. They continue to receive federal funding for welfare, social security payments, medicare, medicaid, Obamacare, US military, government funding for education, unemployment, roads, etc., and other funding. Once they all give that up, then they’ll formally have seceded from the U.S.

      • This man is nuts, obviously. We are still a 50 state union.

      • This clown looks like he has a full load of Maui Wowee before coming to this conclusion.

      • If Hawaii really seceded ,
        Y’all left your Island Fool in The White House, could somebody please come and get him……
        Hawaii secession would really make Obama unable to be president.
        Please read Part III of the 14th Amendment.
        Because of this I grant Hawaii Secession of The Several United States……..

      • HI is a welfare state anyways…they can have it..!!!

      • Good riddance, too.

  2. The second Revolution for God and Country begins! HUA! Good work Missouri! STAND UP AMERICA FOR THE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS OR BE ENSLAVED FOR GENERATIONS TO COME!

    • Little Bright Feather

      That would need to outlaw carry permits as it is Treason against the Constitution (2nd Amend). Read above posts.

      • You need to remove that “Bright” from your name. You’re posting under false pretenses…..

        • Actually she is correct, the words of the Second Amendment “shall not be infringed” suggest most clearly that a government issued permit to allow you to carry a firearm is, in fact, an infringement. But I am glad that you are in favor of the Second Amendment.

          • Jim, here’s a rundown on “gun control” in the late 1700’s:
            Italy’s Cesare Beccaria said the following in the 1760’s :”The laws that forbid the
            carrying of arms…” “…disarm those only who are neither inclined
            nor determined to commit crimes. Can it be supposed that those who have the
            courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, the most important of the
            code, will respect the less important and arbitrary ones, which can be violated
            with ease and impunity, and which, if strictly obeyed, would put an end to
            personal liberty — so dear to men,” “…and subject innocent persons
            to all the vexations that the guilty alone ought to suffer? Such laws make
            things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather
            to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with
            greater confidence than an armed man.”

            And that was before they wrote the Constitution

            Why are those ex-soldiers armed? he asked with great concern.
            Reply was ‘ VERY WELL ARMED GENERAL.
            He asked ” AND THE GOVT. ALLOWS THIS?
            Reply, Not Illegal, General.

            CIRCA OSS/CIA 1945.

          • Why do people insist on overlooking the State’s rights under the 10th Amendment??

          • Yes, The second amendment says the the right to keep and {BEAR] shall not be infringed.

        • I think what she was saying; that permits are illegal. There should be no requirement to have to have a permit to carry a gun. The 2nd Amendment guarantees that. But the liberals continue to pass illegal gun laws instead.

          • She is right, but some people believe that the second amendment only applies to the federal government. I say that if other federal laws trump state and local laws {which has been argued by libs when it helps their position} then the second amendment does too.

          • I totally agree. It is complicated. I would rather see the States maintain their sovereignty. But all States should honor the 2nd Amendment and not infringe upon it by passing illegal gun laws.

          • The problem is that even local politicos think that they are smarter and wiser than the people and develop a nanny attitude thinking that it is their job to protect us from ourselves. What they really need to do is to mind their own business when it comes to the private affairs of law abiding citizens.

          • I agree; over time, local officials can be more meddling and controlling than the feds, far more controlling.

          • Thanks. Have a good life.

          • They should but they don’t, and it really is legal under the 10th amendment for them to do that. So we just have to suck it up and obey their laws or become outlaws ourselves. Which is more important? If we are going to honor the Bill of Rights and the Constitutional Amendments, then we need to recognize the States rights as well and not steal them away from the States or become hypocrites, just like the liberal Democrats that are trying to steal our rights away from us.

            – just one man’s opinion

          • The tenth amendment does not countermand the second. The people are supreme. Governments govern with the permission of the people federal and state.

          • You really are looking at it all wrong, the 10th gives States the right to pass their own individual laws, if you look at the CCL laws with an open mind and reality really sinking in, you’ll see that CCL’s DO NOT infringe on your 2nd Amendment rights. They only dictate HOW you can carry be it an “OPEN” carry or a “CONCEALED” carry not that you can’t carry at all, if it stripped you of the ability to carry AT ALL, THAT would be infringing on your 2nd Amendment rights, but it doesn’t strip you of the right to carry, therefore it is NOT a violation of the 2nd Amendment

          • You should see Joe’s description of infringed (see above). Really? Your perception is that, unless the infringement is draconian, it ‘s ok. Like it’s not robbery if I only take your watch, but not your wallet.

            I think your wrong about CCL’s as well. In every state that I know of, and certainly here in the Peoples Republic of California, you can’t carry without a CCL period.

          • You’re too obtuse for words and reading WAY too much into what I’m saying. Quit acting like a liberal/socialist.

          • You really are confused. You couldn’t be more wrong.

          • your opinion hoss, your opinion.
            I’m neither confused nor wrong, you’re reading too much into my words just like the liberal idiots you speak against.

          • I meant about your snide classification. I am neither a socialist nor a liberal. I couldn’t be further from that. I’ve been called a lot of things, but calling me a liberal/socialist really smarts. I intensely hate both of those. If anything, I am a Constitutionalist. The 2nd amendment is just one part of the Constitution that I am very involved with.

          • Just for clarification I wasn’t actually calling you liberal/socialist, it just seemed as though you were acting like one, by reading too much into my posts. I’ve read enough of your posts to know that you are truly the (as you said) furthest thing from a lib/soc. so you have my most sincere and humble apologies for having offended you that way.

          • I totally disagree. If I live near the border of a state that doesn’t permit firearms and I live on the other side of this imaginary line in a state that does, and I inadvertently cross the border, I can be severely punished. We already have abuses like that with revenue-based speed traps.

            No. The only proper way to address this is to follow the wording of the 2nd amendment as it is written; “The right to keep and BEAR arms shall not be INFRINGED. This couldn’t be more clearly written. Neither the federal government not the states have the constitutional right to “infringe” on the right of a law-abiding American citizen by imposing licensing, registration or CCL requirements. To do so is a violation of the 2nd amendment and Treason.

          • Anyone who makes a law that infringes on the 2nd Amendment and causes its citizens to become felons should be TRIED IN COURT FOR TREASON.

          • Ah, it would be nice if our congress critters and the rope-a-dope in the oval office obeyed the law.
            As that famous pile of dog droppings from South Car. Sen. Clayburn stated’ WHY WE DON’T PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT OLD CONSTITUTION, WE JUSDOES WHAT WE WANTS.” WITH PROPER SLAVE ACCENT, OF COURSE.
            And they keep electing the fool and no doubt he supports obamathebum, lock stock and whatever else they can steal.
            Treason is an ideal of govt. in the halls of slime, hiding our elected officials from their criminal action.
            and Ole Dog eared Clayburn is just one of many that ought to be tried for treason.

          • I think the 14th amendment was pretty clear about that. It said that the federal constitution, including the Rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, applied to the states and state-based governments (like county, city, etc.). If that weren’t the case, all privately owned firearms and ammo in the state of CA would have been confiscated a long time ago.

          • Wait until the feds reclassify ammo as an explosive and require a federal explosives license to possess it.

          • Coming, I’m sure.

          • Sooner than you think.

          • or they could be some what scared they will get their butts blasted.

          • I totally agree

          • Concealed carry (in my own humble opinion) falls under the 10th Amendment and the state’s responsibility to protect it’s citizens from people who are (shall we say) ‘mentally off kilter’ and want to hide the tool of choice to commit murder or other bodily harm. I’ve had my ccl for near 25 years now, and have no problems with my state (or any other state for that matter) requesting that I make one simple concession for the safety of my fellow citizens (I totally disagree with those states that ‘refuse’ ccl’s for any other reason than mental instability or a person on person felony). I am a gun enthusiast, and a law abiding citizen. I defend the Constitutional 2nd Amendment rights, but I also recognize and support the State’s 10th Amendment rights as long as they aren’t too ‘over reaching’; and it’s up to each and every one of us to keep them in check, and let them know what we consider to be over reaching (“obamacare” as an example). Trust me when I say that my ccl is the ONE and ONLY concession that I’m willing to make as far as “gun control” is concerned. The rest of gun control in my opinion is a firm grip with the ability to accurately send a round down range to eliminate your target!!

          • Permits will not keep people who are criminals from having or carrying gun. They will have guns whether you have a permit or whether the State requires you to have one. Actually permits are completely worthless. Like writing a check with no money in the bank.

          • and it is just another way to make revenue for the state.

          • #1 Another way to keep track of you. #2 For future registration and confiscation #3 Another way to trample on the 2nd Amendment. # 4 Another illegal requirement

          • Everyone is (obviously) entitled to their own opinion on ccl’s. I’m not so obtuse that I don’t see or even acknowledge what you’re saying. “All a lock does these days is keep an honest man honest”. First person I ever heard say that was my Great Uncle when I was 3 years old (I know I was 3 because he passed away the December following my 3rd b-day), I’m sure it was a common saying in his day too. Just like a concealed carry permit keeps a law abiding citizen just that … a law abiding citizen. It separates lawful conceal carry from unlawful conceal carry, plain, pure and simple. If you choose to carry concealed without a permit that’s your prerogative, but don’t be upset when they charge you with a felony when you get caught …. and don’t expect the NRA to come to your rescue either, because you have no leg to stand on. CCL’s as I stated before are perfectly legal under the 10th Amendment (the part that the individual states control, just like it’s the individual states that require a ccl and not the Fed’s) of the Constitution. That’s why there is no “Federal” or “National” conceal carry permit …. because under the 2nd Amendment (the part that Congress and the DOJ have authority over) they are an infringement. They’ve been on the books for decades now and they really aren’t hurting anyone but those who refuse to recognize the states rights under the 10th Amendment to protect the citizens by knowing who they can trust and who wants to start trouble. I know there are also the conspiracy theorists and the fear mongers that want to convince us that it’s easier for them to know who has them (guns) and take them first. But they can do that just by the forms that you fill out at the gun stores when you initially purchase a gun, so what does it really hurt if we have to get a conceal carry permit to do things legally and not become one of the bad guys? Absolutely nothing!!

            I know I know …. “but we shouldn’t have to” ….. but under the 10th Amendment we do! So get your big boy pants on, quit your sniveling and whining, suck it up and do the right thing. Get your CCL before you hide your gun under your jacket or in your boot or wherever and don’t make yourself one of the bad guys that can’t be trusted, and give the anti gun Nazi’s more ammunition to try and take or guns with.

          • In Ca. carrying a concealed gun is a misdemeanor,having a knife with a blade over 4 inches concealed on your person is a felony. Go figure.

          • It’s a bit like Elton John thumbing through a Playboy ain’t it? Just don’t make no sense.
            But it’s the same here in Oregon too. I did some research and found out that it has to do with all of the early “gang fights” in the 60’s and just never got taken off of the books, but that’s just here in Oregon. I’m not familiar with CA laws.

          • In CA, carrying a Registered handgun concealed without a CCL is a misdemeanor. Carrying an Unregistered handgun without a CCL is a felony.

          • I think you’re confused about the role of the 2nd and 10th amendments. First, the amendments were drafted in order of importance. Most of the amendments define individual rights. However, the 10th amendment is a catchall provision to prevent unspecified “rights” from being absconded by the federal government in a power grab, much like what the federal government has been doing for nearly a century. The 10th amendment does not give the states the right to infringe the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Clearly, that’s exactly what the states with carry laws are doing. States violating the Constitution sounds like Treason to me.

          • As I stated, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and in my opinion you’re clearly wrong about mine. I’m not confused about anything. I am, however, looking at things from the State’s point of view. CCL’s aren’t an “infringement” on our 2nd amendment rights. They aren’t taking our right to bear arms away, just the manner in which we choose to bear arms and making it easier to prosecute people that are up to no good. If you don’t want to get a CCL/CCP, whatever your State decides to call it, then fine, carry your gun in the open, you have that right. But don’t try to convince those of us that choose to be law abiding citizens, that we’re “sheeple” for taking the time and the effort to remain law abiding citizens.

          • There are laws and there are laws. Just because something is a “law” doesn’t make it right. Laws are constantly being overturned because of constitutionality issues. Blindly following laws that actually hurt us, like CCL’s, are bad laws. People who choose to blindly follow the laws with the smug, self satisfaction of being “law abiding citizens are, in fact, sheeple. When the pass a law requiring your firearms to be co-located in a facility of their choice, will you, as a “law abiding citizen”, comply with that, just because it’s the law? I will not, and if that makes me not a “law abiding citizen”, well then, so be it.

          • Then get them overturned and quit sniveling about their existance, in the meantime obey them and quit giving the gun grabbers ammunition to fight us with!!

        • SemperFi

          Thank you for your service Sgt.

      • You’re forgetting about the State’s rights under the 10th Amendment. The 2nd Amendment is why there is no “Federal” or “National” Concealed Carry Permit/License. If we are going to be honest about demanding our Constitutional rights we can’t allow ourselves to be hypocrites and overlook or blatantly deny the States their rights under the 10th Amendment, to try and keep us safe.

        • The tenth amendment does not neutralize the second. The people are sovereign over both state and federal governments They don’t rule, they govern. That governance is with our permission.They are not royalty. They are public servants,period.

          • You’re right, it doesn’t. And I never even implied that it does. The 10th Amendment allows States to write their own laws and govern as they choose as long as they don’t violate our constitutional rights. CCP’s are not violating the 2nd Amendment as they only dictate HOW you carry (open or concealed) not IF you can carry. Therefore they ARE NOT an infringement upon our 2nd Amendment rights or they would have been declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS years ago. It’s amazing to me how so many people get their feathers all ruffled at such a simple request by the individual states. If someone doesn’t want to get a CCP, then fine carry the friggin’ gun openly and stay out of trouble or become an outlaw yourself!!

          • The problem with that is that in order for a law abiding citizen to get a CCP the government has to know what you own. In Ca. That means registration.If you own a firearm of any kind,it must be registered. The next step is confiscation. Where I live, unless you have influence in local government and have a business and carry large amounts of cash,gold or jewels on your person you might as well ask to carry a nuke. You aren’t getting the permit. Here in the peoples republik Of Kalifionicania.The county Sheriffs and police chiefs determine who gets a CCP. My constitution doesn’t mention counties rights or cities rights.Also, here in my city,you cannot open carry unless you like it in jail. If you carry a firearm in your personal vehicle you had better carry the weapon on the seat in plain sight and have your ammunition locked in the trunk.That’s the law.

          • The Government already knows what you own from the paperwork filed at the store where you purchased it (ATF Form 4473). You’re even supposed to fill one out at Gun & Knife shows as it’s a “Transfer of Ownership” form. Unfortunately that fact has been over looked for several years and needs to be strictly enforced. Registration laws exist in all 50 states. I know this for a fact as I’m in the process of reinstating my dad’s Federal Firearms License and transferring it into my name. Start standing up for your rights sir, contact a lawyer and file a civil injunction against your State, County and Local Governments (there are Lawyers that will do this pro-Bono, it just takes some effort on your part to find one, so it all depends on how serious you are about wanting and standing up for your rights). Those types of laws regarding transporting firearms are merely common sense laws with stiff penalties as scare tactics to keep people safe. We have them here in Oregon too, but they are superseded for handguns only with a CCL.

          • The ATF Form 4473 was required by law to be destroyed after a period of time. The NRA has been going after BATF for not complying with this requirement.

          • Not enough research on my part there then, I wasn’t aware of that. Sure hope NRA can get that taken care of real soon. Time to start making some phone calls to the US Congressman in my District, put some more pressure on BATF.

          • I too will be calling my congressman or should I say his replacement as soon as he is defeated by his Republican opponent in Nov.

          • I sincerely hope that this nobama regime is the death of the liberal/socialist movement!

          • Don’t count on it. They never stop. That is why we must never stop fighting them, EVER!!

          • Trust me …… ain’t no way in HELL I’m counting on it, just voicing a hope and prayer.

          • This is a link to federal firearms registration laws. It shows that there is no federal requirement to register standard hand guns, rifles or shotguns. The 1934 law only covers machine guns, short barreled rifles and shotguns and silencers. http://smartgunlaws.org/federal-law-on-registration-of-firearms/

          • Cool!! Thanks for the info!! I will definitely be checking this out!!

          • Where I live there is no open carry. The only legal way for a civilian to carry a firearm is concealed with a CCL. Anyone with a firearm on his/her hip will be arrested and lose their gun permanently.That is a violation of the second Amendment. Come to my town strapped with a pistol and see how soon you find yourself behind bars. Also when you are in the city limits if you have any kind of firearm with ammo in your car one must be in the passenger compartment and the other must be locked in the trunk. If you are stopped with both in the same compartment you go to jail and will most likely lose your weapon.

          • If there is no “open carry” allowed in your area, then absolutely you are correct, and we agree 100%, that sir IS an infringement on your 2nd Amendment rights, and you need to be getting others to band with you and stand up for those rights and get that law repealed immediately if not sooner. The CCL portion is NOT an infringement and I will stand behind that position until my dying days. The separation of ammo and firearms in a car is a safety factor. A gun is (as I’m sure you’re well aware of) a mechanical device that if loaded can cause serious injury or death if accidentally discharged by a sudden severe bump in the road, and the penalty is (in my own humble opinion) a scare tactic to keep people from violating that law, so again I have no problem with that law as it is a common sense law (we have it here in Oregon as well, but it is superseded, for pistols only, by a CCL).

          • What is unsafe to have your unloaded pistol on the passenger seat and the ammo in the box next to it;or in the glove compartment? Both of those scenarios are illegal. Either the gun or the ammo must be locked away if both are in your car at the same time. That is like requiring your home protection weapon to be locked in a safe.Those kinds of laws can lead to the deaths of the guns owners. What use is a gun if you can’t load it when you need it most?

          • Yes they are exaggerated, overly protective and even over reactive laws ….. but they are still the laws. Either get off your a$$ and get them over turned, or quit whining about them, but obey them until something happens so that the rest of us can enjoy our guns in peace. Or if you can afford to (and if you live in S. Cal. you most likely can) move your A$$ to a state that WILL allow you to live more freely like Texas for instance!

          • No, I can’t afford to move my A$$,as you say out if state. I live on a small fixed income. As for registration, that is so the government knows where to find your weapon when they decide to confiscate it.

          • No, I never said you “could” afford to move I said you “most likely could” huge difference!! Since you’ve divulged your situation you have my sympathy for being on fixed income, my mother is as well so I’m truly empathetic for your situation. But the fact remains that if things in S. Cal. are what you say they are then you need to be just as vocal as the libtard/socialists and make sure that Gov.’t can’t “confiscate” our guns, don’t be the flip side of the same socialist coin. Get out and organize 2nd Amendment and Constitutional awareness rallies. Stand up and be American and end the tyranny in your area, fight both vocally and with your vote for what you believe in. Men and women have fought and died for our Constitutional rights, don’t be a part of what’s wrong with America today, don’t be so paranoid of the Gov.’t. make the Gov.’t paranoid of YOU (in a legal way of course)!!

          • I don’t live in so.Cal. I live in the San Joaquin valley. As far as confiscation is concerned, it isn’t the state I worry about. There are several knowledgeable sources who suspect that Obama may have plans to create the scenario giving him the excuse to declare nationwide martial law. If that happens then all bets are off.

          • I’ve been hearing that on FOXNews as well and I can guarantee you one thing ….. there will be a lot of blood spilled on my front porch before they get mine!! As far as which area you live in …. sorry for the confusion, it really makes no difference though, Kalifornication is one effed up state and you need to get with other people and start screaming louder and longer than the liberals in your area to get things back to the way they should be for all Americans.

          • When we stop Obama {hopefully} this November by taking the Senate. I am supporting an article V convention. http://www.conventionofstates.com/ and this. http://www.sixcalifornias.com/

          • Yes, I agree. Activism is the answer. Unfortunately, the sheeple today care more about what they watch on tv then preventing federal government encroachment on their constitutional rights.

            BTW, some of us live in S. Cal because of the moderate weather, even though the politics suck and the cost of living, if you’re not an illegal, is much too high. I think about relocation almost every day, but moving to a state like Texas is really just trading one problem for another. Instead, I choose to remain here and do what I can to oppose further 2nd amendment restrictions. In many ways, it’s like being in the Alamo, with hordes of radicalized politicians circling around. Do you just give up? I think not.

          • I think (just my opinion here, not saying you’re wrong) it’s more that they are allowing themselves to be deceived by the lamestream media, and less that they care more or less about what they see on T.V.. They’re not doing the research necessary to come to the truth of a story, much like most of our liberal college students that blindly buy into the professors teaching as gospel truth and not doing their own research. I wish I could afford to join you in your activism against your State and local governments encroachments, but I too am stuck here in NW Oregon fighting for the same, fortunately our gun laws up here are a lot less restrictive than what you folks have down there. I’m trying to fight higher taxes and legalized pot and other liberal hippie bull crap that makes it difficult to teach my son how to think for himself, respect others, and honor the laws that we have until the laws that we disagree with can be overturned.

          • While it may be possible for a handgun to discharge accidentally from a “sudden, severe bump in the road”, most, if not all, handguns today have engineered that from being possible. The actual reason for the handgun/ammo restriction is to address gang violence and road rage.

          • sorry to dispute that theory but those laws have been on the books a lot longer than we’ve had road rage and gang drive by issues, and written at a time before gun technologies had the built in safety devices that they have now.

          • Probably true. But those are the excuses that you hear most often today.

          • A 1911 .45 auto has to be in your hand to discharge. There is a safety built into the handle that has to be squeezed by the pressure of holding it in your hand. That safety was a part of the weapon from the beginning {1911} . That is before the silly vehicle restrictions came about. I can’t see why you are so willing to allow a bureaucrat{ who probably never held a firearm in his life} to decide what you can and what you can’t carry in your private vehicle. If it is unsafe to carry a loaded pistol in your car then why is it safe to carry it on your person?

          • Well, first and foremost, not ALL guns were designed that way when the laws were written, second, some people think that they “know so much”, and tear the gun down so they can “tweak” with the mechanics, overriding the safety features (or eliminating them all together) and giving it a “hair trigger”, and again, those laws are also over exaggerated and over reactionary. I don’t agree with them but they are what they are, so until they get repealed we just have to deal with it. And I can’t see why you can’t just take things in stride and work towards getting laws you don’t like repealed, instead of whining like a mule on a web site trying to demonize people who are willing to let the laws be what the laws are, until they can be repealed. And it also depends upon how and where on your person it’s being carried as to whether or not it truly is “safe” or not. For instance, if you have it on your person, in a shoulder holster, with a CCL, in your car and the car is in motion, it is far less likely to have an “accidental discharge” than it is if it were loaded in the seat beside you, or between the drivers door and seat or wherever else you want to try and “store” it, and it gets bounced out of the seat, and falls on to the floor board by a sudden and violent “bump” in the road (accidental discharge waiting to happen). And don’t try giving me any noise about “that’s what the safety is for”, or any other such garbage. My dad and my older brother were both Hunter’s Safety Instructors, and I as well as many, many other responsible hunters were taught as lesson number one …. “a safety is a mechanical device that sometimes fails to function”!! And I also can’t see why you as a responsible gun owner would ask such an ignorant question. Then again …. maybe you really aren’t a responsible gun owner after all, taking too many safety issues for granted. Are you the type that gives the rest of us a bad reputation?? Not an accusation, just a question you need to be asking yourself.

          • I don’t need to ask myself the question, you already asked it for me. No, I am not irresponsible and I resent the implication. I have been around and acquainted with firearms for over 50 years. I took hunter safety courses as a child and was trained with an m16 and a .45 in the army. I know the mechanics of a firearm and have never accidentally discharged a weapon. The problem with government nanny types and people like you is your assumption that you are the only people with common sense. Firearm safety isn’t rocket science. Yes, a safety can fail, that too is a matter of common sense, but tell me how carrying a weapon on the passenger seat unloaded with the magazine next to it is unsafe. Tell me how a weapon with the magazine locked in but with an empty chamber is unsafe.It is illegal to even have a gun and it’s ammunition in the same compartment of the car where I live. THAT………….. makes no sense; unless the prevention of an accidental discharge isn’t really the reason behind the law. The same people who pass these kinds of laws are the same kinds of people who write the smog regulations in CA. Old ’60s hippy types who put down the picket signs and became gov. officials so they could save the environment or make the Earth a gun free zone through incrementally chipping away at gun rights until they get to their “Utopia” of a gun free world.The Ca air resources board is a group of people who wouldn’t know a catalytic converter from a glass pack yet they tell the automotive industry how to design their engines. The anti gun crowd is no different. These are people who don’t know their azz from a shotgun yet they claim the authority to tell law abiding people how to live. As for safety, how does having a CCL enhance the safety of a holstered pistol? Finally, I don’t understand where your attitude towards me comes from. This is a discussion forum isn’t it? This is where people share their views and beliefs,isn’t it? I know where you stand and you know where you stand. I am not asking you to shut up, why are you asking that of me?

          • Did you not read where I agreed with you that the laws are over exaggerated and over reactive and I disagree with them? And yes, I realize who the law makers are today, because the laws that get written and passed can only be thought up by people from the 60’s who’ve fried their brains on pot. You’re preaching to the choir hoss. I recommend going to your County Republican Party headquarters (if you have one in your county, mine does that’s why I recommended it) and putting a petition together to get those laws repealed. If I’ve left you with the impression that I’m telling you to shut up, again you have my most sincere apologies, that isn’t my intention. You’re question to me said nothing about a magazine removed, only how a gun in the car next to you is less dangerous than one on your person, so I answered it from the point of view of the nanny state law makers. I’m not trying to preach to you that I have common sense and you don’t, just questioning the open endedness of your question. A CCL allows you to carry it holstered and loaded, your body and the way the holster supports the gun next to your body acts as a natural shock absorber ….. how can that not be safer than a gun not holstered and laying free to be bounced around (unless the one laying free is unloaded and unchambered)?

          • You recommendation is well intended and would be, as Harry Reid says:dead on arrival You do know that I live in the peoples republik of Kalifornicania. We have Boxer,Feinstein,Pelosi,Gavin Newsom, Jerry{Moon Beam} Brown, and my favorite,Kamala Harris. She is the Ca. attorney general. She was the San Francisco D.A. under Newsom. When she ran the S.F. DAs office she let it be known that any assistant going for the death penalty would be fired. Every state government divison is ran by a Democrat. This state is hopless. You might just as well try to repeal the law of gravity in this state than ask for sensible and {constitutional } gun laws. As for my question, if you read my post again it was in the context of the existing law. It was more a question to the law makers than to you. You also stated that a holstered gun with a CCL was safer than having it on the seat. What does a CCL have to do with safety? It has to do with legalities and government control. Also, a CCL doesn’t allow you to carry, it makes it legal {if you know the right people} to carry. Lastly, Our gun laws are more than exagerated and over reactive. They are silly, illogical,draconian. and unconstitutional. They serve no logical purpose other than fulfilling the wishes of people who either hate guns or want to be the only ones who can legally posses them. In the end it may come down to the choice of being carried by six friends or tried by twelve strangers. I prefer the latter.

          • No, A CCL has nothing to do with “safety”, but it is the topic of this original discussion, and I can’t in good conscience leave out the CCL and have somebody else reading this think that I’m advocating a violation of the law. No, I haven’t forgotten where you live and you have my condolences for the illegal laws you’re forced to live under, but why let the lib/soc. bullies stop you from doing what’s right? If you can get enough signatures on the petition, they have no choice but to bring it up for a vote by the people and if they refuse that, then you have ammunition to get them recalled with, will any of that work? probably not, most likely not ….. but at least you’ll be getting something started and not letting them totally get away with it. And yes, I could tell how you were phrasing the question, that it wasn’t directed at me and I didn’t take it that way. I was only trying to do the best I could to answer it through the eyes of the lawmakers that haven’t got the first danged clue about the fact that they’re trampling the 2nd Amendment, then again …. maybe they do and don’t care. If your petition fails the first time keep going and trying. Fight fire with fire, the crybabies that got the laws passed in the first place did the same thing. “We the People” need to start taking back what is Constitutionally ours by resorting to their playbook. Scream and yell louder than they do, bring attention to the rest of America how bad things really are in Kalifornication.
            I lost my dad to a heart attack when I was 22 and my older brother gave me my dad’s tool box from his job as a Machinist (they worked together at Warn Industries, the company that makes winches and other off road equipment), inside his toolbox I found one of those cartoon drawings with a comedic sayings on it. This particular one was of a stork with a frog in it’s bill, the frog had its legs outside of the storks bill with the front legs shaped like human arms and hands and the hands were wrapped around the storks throat choking the stork. The caption said “Don’t ever f—ing give up!!”

            The same goes here Hoss!! (It just occurred to me that I keep calling you “Hoss” I hope you know I don’t mean anything derogatory by that, I learned on one of my past jobs by a Texan that ‘Hoss’ is a Texas term that means “big friendly guy”) Don’t ever give up! Find those around you that can help, don’t feel like you’re fighting alone and don’t feel like you’re fighting for nothing or a lost cause. The lib/soc.’s did the same and look at what they got accomplished for their side. My hope is that my words encourage you, not make you feel like I’m running you down. And hopefully it will also encourage others to do the same.

          • I know the name Hoss from Bonanza. In the show it meant a big strong man. No big. Right now the only thing the libs are stopping me from doing is protecting myself with a firearm. I know you mean well but, the idea of a ballot initiative to legalize open and /or concealed carry in this state is only a pipe dream. 2/3 of the population of this state is in the SF and LA areas. 9/10 of those people are flaming libs. Any effort to change things in this state will fail. Every time they lose in the ballot box the libs go to a friendly court and have one or more of their “tame” judges overturn the law. Just look at prop 8. It passed with a 52% majority. The 9th circus court of appeals overturned it. I am afraid that the only way that this state will ever come to it’s senses is to go totally bankrupt to the opint that the people will have no choice but to put the blame squarely where it belongs: squarely in the laps of the Democrats. Then it will take decades for the damage to be repaired. I will be long dead before that happens even if I can survive being an unarmed helpless resident of the OK corral. Tell me. If you had all your gun rights stripped and all your guns confiscated would you sit on your hands at the mercy of armed criminals and gang members or would you do what you had to do in order to defend yourself and your family?

          • I think you already know the answer to that one. πŸ˜‰
            I’m sorry that I can’t do more for you, and once again you have my condolences for having to live under such blatantly unconstitutional laws. I wish things could change back to the way they are supposed to be down there.

          • Here’s to freedom and common sense.

          • The SCOTUS only recently ruled that the 2nd amendment was an individual right. And that mostly had to do with who was on the court than the issue of the 2nd amendment per se. If we lose 1 or more justices, the individual right of the 2nd amendment could quickly become a footnote in history.

            I point this out only because if it weren’t for the SCOTUS, California, Chicago, NY and DC would long ago have regulated away the individual right to have a firearm of any kind. If it weren’t for the intervention of the SCOTUS in the Heller decision, the citizens of DC would still not be able to have a handgun.

            I think that at the center of this issue is a confusion between a right and a privilege. A privilege can be regulated, like a drivers license. A right cannot be regulated. Imagine if I needed to get a permit to publicly criticize a public official. The Bill of Rights is called that because that’s exactly what it is, rights. Rights cannot be licensed, period.

            This real issue here is Congress’s failure to amend the 2nd amendment, clearly delineating what restrictions, if any, could be imposed on this right. Instead, they have allowed us to be inundated by a myriad of confusing and often conflicting state and local regulations. This is where the real problem is and where an actual solution also is.

            I can tell that you’re a big states rights advocate, and I respect you for that. I’m absolutely not a fan of the federal government in any way. However, there are some things that need to be done on a nationwide basis, like the highway system. Having a rational discussion on what restrictions should be placed on the 2nd amendment is long overdue. Not having this only perpetuates the confusion about what the states can and can’t do. And it only continues to provide a platform for radicalized politicians to chip away at our constitutional rights.

          • Absolutely!!! They only recently declared it that way because they had to, to continue the protection of the 2nd Amendment against the gun grabbers (like the liberal/socialist governments of CA, NY, DC and Chicago as you pointed out). And no I’m really not a big states rights activist either, just aware of their rights and respect them as I demand that they respect our rights as American citizens and don’t want them to turn on us like the Fed’s are trying to under this nobama regime. I’m merely trying to help people understand that the State really is just trying to protect us from no good idiots that choose to use a gun as their tool of choice. It gives them one more felony crime to throw at them when a perp decides to break the law. When looked at subjectively as well as objectively it’s easy to see that the State, under the 10th Amendment, really is looking out for our best interest and security the best way they can with out violating our 2nd Amendment rights. They aren’t telling us we can’t bear arms, just asking us to get a permit/license to carry it how we choose …… concealed …… if that’s how we choose to carry it.
            And until Congress (again, as you pointed out) gets off of their A$$es and makes it a national agenda that concealed carry is covered under the 2nd Amendment and stops allowing the States to be a nanny state (and allows us to cross State borders ((not NATIONAL borders)) as well), we’ll just have to keep playing their games and putting them in check when and where they really are violation our rights the way CA, NY, DC and Chicago have been.

          • Here in Orange county in S. Cal, we have a carpetbagger sheriff from LA. One of her first actions as sheriff was to cancel CCL’s that had been issued by the previous sheriff. She then instituted draconian requirements for obtaining a CCL. The gun had to be “certified” by a sheriff armorer. Same with the ammo. If you used a different gun or different ammo, felony. BTW, there is only 1 sheriff armor. It could take more than a year to come up for consideration. In addition, you had to pass an exhaustive questionnaire and pass a shooting test, with both hands. I don’t know about you, but my left hand mostly just keeps me from falling over. Finally, you had to obtain very expensive liability insurance. And the icing on the cake, you had to do this all over again annually. Oh, and did I mention the fee. I think you can see why I dislike the idea of CCL’s.

            San Diego had similar draconian measures, and a suit filed in district court that smacked down San Diego. This decision applied to all of California. Of course, our wonderful STATE district attorney decided that Californians shouldn’t be able to carry concealed, so she appealed. So much for the “State really is just trying to protect us”. These radicalized politicians, whether on the state or federal level don’t care about protecting us as much as they care about controlling us.

          • HOLY CRAP!!! No wonder you’re so anti-CCL!!! Up here in Clackamas County Oregon it’s NOTHING like that. I went to the Courthouse and picked up the “CCL Application Packet” at the Civil Division, Paid $100 for a 3 hour class offered by a former FBI Hostage Rescue Team first man in (former because, according to him, on his last mission he took a 12ga. slug to his right hip, ending his career), and then took the the paperwork with my Instructors signature on it back to the Courthouse, paid another $50 fee for the State criminal background check, and 6 weeks (not quite 6) later my permit came to me in the mail. I only have to renew it every 4 years, and it’s a $50 renewal fee. There’s no “proficiency” exam or anything else like that, and not even a liability insurance requirement. Those types of classes are offered but not required. As for my left hand, legally I’m left handed but all I use it for is writing, everything else I do right handed (although if push comes to shove I can shoot with my left hand, I just prefer shooting right). Your State DA needs to be recalled, and I’ll bet you anything she’s surrounded by bodyguards that are all carrying concealed!!!

          • The one weakness in your argument is that most of the time whether you can get a CCL is entirely up to a county Sheriff. Some Sheriffs have no respect for peoples rights. If a sheriff believes that only the police should carry weapons then you can kiss your CCL goodbye,the second amendment be damned.

          • And that’s because they look at it under the 10th Amendment, which has been my point all along. If they are arresting people for open carry (which as you’ve already indicated, they do) that is where they are violating your 2nd Amendment rights.

          • I think that, for many of us that disagree with your opinion about the 10th amendment, the issue is something called preeminence. For example. Most states have preeminence statutes that do not allow local jurisdictions pass laws that contradict state law.

            We just feel that the 2nd amendment establishes preeminence over the 10th amendment, and specifically with the use of infringe. IMHO, the 10th amendment can be used to ENHANCE the protections of the 2nd amendment, but not RESTRICT it. I feel that CCL’s fall into the restrict category.

          • I agree totally that it should, unfortunately the 2nd isn’t worded properly (because the founders couldn’t see the future), so it doesn’t. And again CCL’s aren’t saying you can’t carry at all, just that you have to have that “permission” from the State to keep it out of sight. And yes, the 10th most definitely should enhance and not inhibit, unfortunately for us some pinheaded, booksmart, idiot, liberal lawyer, found a way to word it so that a Federal judge would see it his way. So until we can get those CCL laws repealed (which I highly doubt we ever will) we’re stuck with them. I have to keep telling my self, and hopefully help others (not necessarily change minds) see, how the States are viewing it as their “devine” right under the 10th, to do it that way. Otherwise my blood pressure would be off the charts.

    • Another State and its CITIZENS stands up to the bullies.

    • Amen! I sure hope your right, it is time Christian Patriots take this country back!

  3. Little Bright Feather

    Police make up reasons to arrest people in order to steal their guns and also to give them a record so they cannot freely carry anymore – IT’s a rip off. Police themselves need to be eliminated – the Sheriff is all we need or can lawfully have. Police are a Federal entity and the standing army for DC in every state = totally UN-Constitutional. And in that law they need to specify that to arrest anyone they need to be guilty of a real crime. Not some made up Police excuse as it usually is. Oh, and carry permits are also Treason against the Constitution.

    • I just can’t believe some these people that we have in Wash D.C. and the one’s that voted for them! Big Zero, is getting more dangerous by the minute! I’m 65yr old, and have seen alot in those years, but nothing I’ve seen compares to Big Zero’s administration! I’m fairly confident that I’ve got BZ figured out….they are for a one world government, and control of the people, that’s one reason that they want our guns! Gun control is going to be
      fairly hard to do…..dealing with a bunch of hard headed southern red necks! Well for sure I’m conversing with a conservative like yourself that still believes in Our Constitution, and the 2nd amendment! Well I’m not wanting to talk you leg off, but I’m glad you still believe in the United States and our values! Oh by the way, I wanted to mention, that I was stationed at the Submarine Base Pearl Harbor in 1969, It sure is a beutiful Island! Thanks for your comment. Cotton

      • If we got 80 to 90% of the people to vote in elections, we would not have the problms we have today. We’d be able to force politicians into giving us term limits, by voting them out after one term until they did so.

        • Winston Churchill once remarked that β€œThe best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.” It is tragic, and the fault of both parents and schools, that a substantial percentage of the voting public is oblivious to the Constitution and has only a vague – often wrong – concept of the structure and function of the branches of government. Ask the average man – ask the checkout clerk at a store – “What’s our Congressional district?” and see how many blank looks you get. And you want them to go to the polls, you want them to cast a vote.

          • Stupid is as stupid does, FM. Few of them even know who the Father of our County is, or when the Civil War or WW1 occurred. But mention Obamacare or welfare, and they blather on about how great it all is until you’re bored to tears!

    • How about Hurricane Katrina when on national news the female police officer was caught on camera looting along side the looters with her gun flopping in the breeze. The selfies in the WH and the police only want protection for themselves. They don’t care if they leave the elderly and women and small businesses left unprotected. Having protection in my glovebox saved me from being carjacked. And believe me when seconds count there is ‘no time’ to call for help. Even the police admit they can’t be everywhere instantly.

    • Please don’t clump all Police Officers and Police Departments in to one big group. There are still a lot of good Police Officers and Police Departments out there. It tends to be limited to Liberal minded Police Officers, Liberal minded Police Departments. Yes Police Officers in California, New York, ect. tend to be very liberal. I am a retired DOD Police Officer and permitted to carry conceal in all 50 States thanks to the stroke of Obama’s mighty pen but you want catch me in any Liberal State because you never know what those Liberal Police Officers will do. They kind of got you over a barrel when you are far away from home. So I just avoid Liberal States all together. I retired to a Conservative State, Conservative City, Conservative Police and Sheriff’s Departments. Where State Legislators have voted to protect Citizens constitutional rights from the over reach of the Federal Government. You could not pay me to live in a Liberal State, I want even visit one. To all of the Conservatives that are stuck in a Liberal State, I feel for you.

      • You are right Johnny, even some liberals are fighting for our constitutional rights. It is the far right and far left, that are screwing up our country.

        • The “far right” is the least of the US’s problems. It’s the ignorant and stupid who are the worst threat; they elected this traitor and his corrupt machine to the highest office; now we the people must flush them down the DC toilet!

      • I know quite a few police officers that are good BUT they know the bad ones and do nothing just to save their jobs. I ought to know because I was a victim, the courts knew it, the city knew it, my lawyer knew it, 11 witnesses knew it but no cop would protect me, not a one. The result, I was forced to flee for my life and suffer the most vile rule of all, the statute of limitations. LBF is right too, they made sure I couldn’t defend myself and would have to suffer corruption everywhere. I spit on spineless cops who refuse to confront the assassins in their ranks and especially the chiefs who protect them, the city councils that empower them and any DA that covers it up.

    • I live in a state that issues concealed carry licences, and I have carried for 25 years since someone came after me with a knife. I managed to get away with just a few seconds to spare. That night I decided to get a CHL since they were available in our state. My question to you is, where in the hell did you come up with this ridiculous notion that carry permits are Treason against the Constitution? I think that is your opinion, because it sure as hell is NOT the law, nor has it EVER been.

      • Please see my response to OCDiver. My understanding of “treason” is any act violates the Constitution. America and our Constitution and one and the same. Betrayal of one is betrayal of the other. Betraying the Constitution is the same thing as betraying America. Treason.

        • My statement was in reply to Little Bright Feather, not to you. She said that carry permits were Treason against the Constitution, & I completely disagree with her statement. I am fully aware of what Treason is to America & to the Constitution. What I said in reply to “her” had nothing to do with anything you said. I will add this; Barack Obama is guilty of HIGH TREASON & should be put before a firing squad of U.S. Marines & deprived of his Fascist Tyrant traitor life. PERIOD.

          • I know. My point was that requiring a firearm permit of any kind is an abridgement of the 2nd amendment. Any government entity that requires someone to obtain a permit is abridging, and violating the Constitution. That, IMHO, is a form of treason. Just my opinion.

          • The legal meaning of treason is very specific and getting permits and going thru checks, etc. is not treason, but could be construed as sedition.

          • Yes Roger it in fact is, look up the definition of infringe and then go read the second amendment.

          • Well, treason is defined by 18 U.S. Code 2381. It’s somewhat vague, but I do believe that it does apply. It says, in part, “Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them”. The Federal government is not, despite what many people and the current Federal government might believe, the United States. It is the citizens of the America. The Federal government is, essentially, a service organization established and empowered by the People (See Declaration of Independence, which says that the people are free to replace said service organization). When the Federal government, a service organization of the People, interferes with the rights of the People as delineated by the Bill of Rights, it has, in essence, declared war against the people, and, consequently, is guilty of Treason. BTW, this issue is not limited to just the 2nd Amendment. The Federal government has been at war with the People for decades now, attacking every one of the first 10 amendments.

            The only real way to remedy this would be to convene a Continental Congress to replace the Federal government (said service organization) with a new one. The Federal government, anticipating this, passed the Sedition Act. If you look at a recent poll released today, the majority of people polled can’t even name the 3 branches of our government. It’s no surprise then that the Federal government has moved from benevolent service organization to tyrannical overlord. The Founding Fathers did their best to prevent this, but they could not have anticipated the apathy of the people today towards the admisistration of our country. IMHO, this began with the passage of the 16th amendment which removed the financial leash that kept the Federal government in check. Unfortunately, I think, Americas’ best days are behind her.

            As 8 U.S. Code 2381 states, anyone guilty of treason is permanently barred from ever holding government office. Everyone in government office that requires a “permit”, in any form, violates the 2nd amendment and, in effect, has levied war against the American people and should be charged with treason and barred from ever holding government office again.

          • Ah, OK. I get ya now. I misunderstood, you meant it’s treason on the govt’s part to require it of us, not for us to carry concealed. Good point.

          • Yes, that’s right. I think that it’s shameful that the sheeple in this country have allowed this.

      • Umm Freddy it certainly is read the definition of infringed, no where in the second amendment or the Constitution does it say we should have to get a permit. The right to defend yourself is a natural right in other words none of the governments damn business the constitution only acknowledges that right and confirms it it DOES NOT GRANT THAT RIGHT you have that right PERIOD!! I don’t give a rats ass what any government morons says. I also have a CCW and had to go through the crap to get I did not like it one bit but I did it because I had no choice.

    • In order to get a CCP, you have to attend a class and go through a criminal background check. It lets the Police know who is carrying legally and who is up to no good. How is that “treason” against the Constitution?

      • I can’t speak for him, but my understanding of this is that, the Bill of RIghts, of which the 2nd amendment is a part, are rights of the people and cannot be licensed. Do we need a “permit” from the government to speak, to be secure in our homes, to have “due process”? The RIGHT of the people to “keep and bear arms” shall not be abridged. Abridged. Requiring permits to bear arms is an abridgement of a right enumerated by the Constitution and is clearly as unconstitutional as it would be to require a permit for any of the other amendments of the Bill of Rights.

        Of course, the other problem is the government knowing who is armed. It is and has historically been the prelude to confiscation. Look to New Orleans and Katrina. The “police” wasted no time stripping its’ citizens of their firearms, leaving them completely defenseless against roving mobs.

        • I totally get your point, but the constitution says “infringed upon” not abridged, granted they are infringing my rights by putting that stipulation for concealed carry ….. however, since they aren’t really taking my right to carry at all away, I have no problem jumping through their hoops to let them know I am willing to make one concession to let them know I’m one of the good guys (and that’s where it stops), and not up to no good. When a cop pulls me over she/he knows right up front that I am one of the good guys because the dispatcher has my record and tells him/her that I have gone through a background check, because of my permit being on file. I’ve had 0 (zero) hassles from the police since I got my permit 22 years ago; and I live in an extremely liberal state. We haven’t had a Republican Governor in Oregon in almost 30 years (Vic Ateyah left office in Jan.1987).

          • Give them a little they will take it all, infringed
            infringe verb abuse a privilege, abuse one’s rights, advance stealthily, aggress, arrogate, breach, break, break bounds, break in upon, break into, commit a breach, impinge, impose, infract, interfere, interlope, invade, meddle, overstep, seize wronggully, take liberties, transgress, trespass, use wrongfully, usurp, violare, violate, violate a contract, violate a law, violate a privilege, violate a regulation

            Seems pretty clear to me what the word means

          • Yup, I checked the dictionary before I posted and they are pretty similar in meaning, but a good lawyer (if there is such a thing these days), would shred it in a trial. As for the G-folk taking our rights, it’ll only happen if enough people allow it to happen, just because I bent a little doesn’t mean I’m gonna bend anymore when it comes to our gun rights. I’ve already proved all I’m going to that I’m one of the trustworthy ones, now it’s their turn to show me I can trust them …… which so far they haven’t even come close (and it’s really pissing me off)!!!

          • Honestly, I think the history on bending is pretty clear. Once they know that you are armed, they will know where to confiscate your firearms. you will either bend completely to their will or be eliminated by overwhelming force. Gun registration, permits, et al, are just ways for the government to know who to go after first. Remember Katrina and the Big Easy? All it took was a natural disaster for Nagel to go apeshit and begin confiscating everyones’ firearms. And that was just with a small, ragtag police force. Now imagine that happening on a larger state or federal level.

            Europe bent to Hitler and, well, we know what happened next.

          • I have a brass belt buckle of a skeleton hand gripping a musket that says: “They can have my gun when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!” ……. that includes the Federal, State, and local governments!! And I will take as many with me as I can before they get me. Again, I’ve bent all I’m going to!!

          • There aren’t enough police in the nation, or DEA or CIA agents to deal with 100 million legally armed citizens. And I doubt the military would be interested; they hate Obama and his corrupt Leftist machine.

          • Unfortunately, I think you’ve overestimated the American people, even the ones that own firearms. This is not colonial America. I’d be willing to bet that the government, through it’s lapdog, the media, could convince the majority of Americans to do whatever it wants. Even march off a cliff if it wanted to. Sheeple.

          • Sorry. I got that wrong. Senior moment. Even so, permits are still an “infringement”.

            I do have a serious problem with your position that a partial infringement is ok. Seriously, would it be ok if the government required you to surrender your 4th amendment rights to establish that you are a “good guy”? Or how about the Federal government requiring you to obtain a “permit” before criticizing it? Rights cannot be treated like a privilege granted by a “benevolent” government like the privilege to drive, practice medicine, law, etc. What you are suggesting is appeasement. Like Chamberlain at the beginning of WWII, appeasement doesn’t work. Give an inch, lose a mile.

            Personally, I don’t need a permit from the Federal government or anyone else to establish that I am a “Good guy”.

          • Like I said, I’ve already made the one concession I’m willing to make. And that one was made 22 years ago for the sole reason that the Fed’s dropped it to the individual States under the 10th Amendment because they wanted to leave the states holding the bag for violating the 2nd Amendment. If I were to do it again, knowing how “liberally” the Fed’s choose what falls to the 10th Amendment and what doesn’t, I’d tell my State to get stuffed and stand firmer for my 2nd Amendment rights.

          • Well OK; but they ARE taking away the rights of the folks that have need to carry and can’t afford the ridiculous permit prices and the many hours of tutorial training required. For that matter who has the right and the ability to train and evaluate a gun owners ability and need for a carry permit. when the shooting starts all people will instinctively react “each according to his gifts”

          • Not really, open carry is still legal, just draws more attention than wanted. I don’t know how the classes work now because I got mine almost 25 years ago, back then it was a 3 hour class that only cost $100 (the more advanced classes that teach you sidearm use will obviously cost more, I was fortunate in the fact that my dad was a Vietnam era veteran with a Federal Firearms License, and taught me gun safety and how to shoot). After the class you took the paper work verifying that you had attended the class to the Sheriff’s office, paid another $50, and after a 6 week criminal background check your permit arrives in the mail. Even at a minimum wage job I was able to afford that. Where there is the will there is a way. My CCL Instructor was a former FBI Hostage Rescue Team “First man in” (he told us “former” because on his last mission he took a 12ga. shotgun round to his right hip). All CCL Instructors go through an extensive training program as well as a criminal background check, unless they are still serving or have ever served in a Law Enforcement or Military capacity so they are more than qualified to make those decisions. “Need” has nothing to do with it unless you live in a state that really is infringing upon your Constitutional 2nd Amendment rights. If that’s the case, then take your state before the US Supreme Court with your grievance, there are attorneys out there that will do it pro-Bono I would start by contacting an attorney named Jay Sekulow (not sure about the spelling, but it’s close). With training and practice your “instincts” can be honed to react properly, with calm, controlled precision; not in a panic where you just pull the trigger and spray bullets until the magazine runs out of ammo. The state has the right under the 10th Amendment to make sure that people are responsible and mentally stable enough to carry a gun in a concealed manner. Anti-gun nuts would love nothing more, for people to remain uninformed or misinformed as to how conceal carry laws actually work and save lives. Remember ….. when seconds count the Police are usually only minutes away.

          • Actually your post is saying that you haven’t had to put out the time and money that is required from the rest of us poor people. A five minute written test on gun handling safety and five more on the range ought to be good enough. (the prospect could be observed for safety at the range part and disqualified for unsafe handling.) Where I live the police go the other way if it sounds dangerous. I wasn’t aware of the 10th amendment and am not well studied on legal and government matters having been out out of school for nearly 50 years.

          • As far as the cost is concerned, I did it almost 25 years ago so it’s naturally going to be less expensive for me than those trying to do it today …. just how life is, so your complaint on that is invalid. As far as the time involved with training and practice, like I said, I was fortunate enough to have had a veteran dad that taught me how to use a gun, and the rest of it is practice on the range (and you don’t have to go to an actual shooting range either; you can go to a remote area and set up targets to practice on, just make sure you’re shooting into a safe backstop), so again your argument makes no sense (and no, the “prospect” would NOT be disqualified on the range, they would be shown what they are doing wrong and how to correct it to do it the proper way so that they would be allowed to obtain their ccl). If cops in your area are “going the other way if it sounds dangerous”; then either they aren’t real cops, or your full of bunk. If you haven’t taken the time to keep yourself informed over the last 50 years, with all due respect, you have no one to blame but yourself because the information is out there for all who want it. I’ve been out of school for nearly 30 years (actually …. now that I think about it, my 30th HS reunion will be sometime next Spring) and remember quite vividly all of these things (Bill of Rights, Constitution etc.) being taught in my Social Sciences classes (History, Social Studies, etc..); if you really are that uninformed then (again) with all due respect you shouldn’t be in a chat room like this voicing your opinion about how wrong others are.

          • So you’re telling (with all due respect) that I am too stupid to execute my first amendment rights here. Just FYI I have kept up with what was needed as I learned many many other things like four/five different vocations for instance so I could keep working.
            You say I’m full of “bunk” concerning our LEO’s and maybe it’s not as bad as I let on, but a while back our dispatchers were telling that the deputies would suddenly respond from the very far ends of the county when called to a violent emergency. Of Course they are real cops they have their little pistols and their high performance cruisers, badges, cuffs, and probably rifles in their trunks. (don’t forget those black sticks called batons, flashlights
            In case you didn’t know (with all due respect of course) Einstein taught us to not try and remember everything we learned, but it’s better to remember where the information can be recovered. (reference books in his day and internet nowadays) I for one have also found that trying to remember too much can bring on a condition called absent mindedness. Had I thought your point about the tenth amendment was important (with all due respect of course) I could have had the information on my screen is seconds, but the truth is (with all due respect of course) I figured your analysis was probably twisted or stretched since your posts didn’t seem that intellectually enlightened. (again with all due respect)

            P.S. This is Illinois and many (25) years ago there were no carry permits to qualify for, and also here in down state very few men (at least) grow up without at least a preliminary training in gun safety and many men take their kids hunting so many adults have actual skills with firearm use.

          • WOW, you really are a blow hard aren’t ya!! Really like to see your words on a computer screen running somebody else down to feel good about your self don’t ya!! And FYI .. I have also vested myself in several different vocations to keep myself employed as well. Most of them minimum wage jobs just so that I can stay off of the government tit of dependency!! Wearing a badge and a gun doesn’t make a person a cop, it’s the integrity inside the person that goes with the uniform that makes them a REAL cop, what you describe is a coward and shouldn’t be disgracing an honorable profession like that. If you want to take it as I was calling you too stupid to be here exercising your 1st amendment rights then buddy if the shoe fits wear it!! I still use the reference books myself because the internet information can be edited by people like you that are to ignorant accept what people are really saying and in a fit lunacy have to give long winded speeches that in the end say nothing at all, just to feel better about themselves.

      • Read the second amendment

    • Yes, the Sheriff’s are to form Militias for the protection of it’s citizens, but somewhere along the way, the people decided they did not have time for their own protection, and delegated that authority to Police. Well, Sheriff’s should be forming Militias with All the citizens of their counties that want to participate. If we are Not organized before the Gestapo comes to town, then how will we organize after they control our movements? How do we fight the Swat teams we created for our protection, who now want to control us, and subjugate us?

  4. Read “More Guns, Less Crime” by Dr. John R. Lott of U of I, Chicago Campus who studied ten years of FBI data for his book.

    Google “Two Minute Conservative” We prove what we say.

  5. a wonderful demonstration of cojones…this needs to be done by the House in DC with everything kenyan boy has done outside of the parameters of the office that he occasionally visits….can not expect anything from the senate, too many commie coward democrapos still hanging on…some of them should be in assisted living places, like Attica…

  6. Maybe if Hussein Obama see’s every American are now carrying their Weapons he may realize his Army would be to small to win the war, and NOT even try it? But, can not trust him, because he is a idiot and does not care about you.

  7. Missouri has been my adopted home for the last 19 years, and one of the co-authors of this bill is my Sunday school teacher. Great day for us!

  8. Now if all the states would stand up and do the same as the great state of Missouri, then we might be able to trust an election that is the will of US citizens and not that of scammers, and illegal voting! Holder has tried to stop this move to have a Valid ID claiming it is racist, which defies reason, an ID is used for every facet of our lives. Isn’t it his job to enforce and protect the integrity of our voting rights?

    • Unless you’re white

      • Why do you say “unless you’re white? If for some reason, you do not have a form of ID, the Governors of a number of states ,said they would visit your home and ensure you receive a Voter Identification card and at no charge, if it is a hardship. Every American has the right to vote, to make sure their vote isn’t canceled out by a non US Citizen’s vote. If too many non citizens vote, then that vote could change the outcome in their favor and want they want for America. IT’s very wrong , but happens every election.. WE have to insist on protecting our voting systems from those who want to influence the outcome. Please call your Voting official and exercise your rights. Whether you are White or Black,makes no difference , we are all Americans and love our great country. Please exercise your right to vote in the November 4, election for the candidate of your choice. Good luck and I feel sorry about your response to me. I hope you know that not all people are biased, although some groups try to stir up resentments from the past.

        • I was talking about the way EH only protects the rights of Muslims, Blacks, Latinos, other minorities and illegal aliens; and ignores the rights of Whites. Just like Brendan Tevlin, the white High School grad that got killed last June over in New Jersey I think it was, on his way home from a friends hose, by a Black Muslim radical. We heard from EH, nobama, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and all sorts of other activists when a white cop killed a black thug (as shown on the security video of the store he robbed shortly before), but where are they now that a white (who was a good kid as shown on Greta Van Sustren’s show on Wed. evening) has been slain by a black radical muslim?? Looking for more white on black crimes to demonize … that’s where!!! They snivel and whine about equal rights, civil rights etc.. BULLCRAP!!! They are looking for SPECIAL RIGHTS, otherwise they would be just as vocal and outraged about Brendan Tevlin as they are about what’s is name Brown the thug from MO!!!


    • Not when he is a bigoted by prodigy of Obama

    • Florida and Georgia have it so does Texas. Florida also has Stand Yo’ Ground Law.

    • Great Idea, but many states just keep electing Liberal, Socialist, gun haters into office, to take their arms and enslave them. Somehow they think this will make America, and the world, a paradise.. LOL!

    • He never did his job; he followed orders from the Progressive/Liberal Machine.

  9. The Show Me state just showed the rest of the country how to respect our Constitution.

  10. i applaud the state of Missouri legislature for overriding the governor.

    california is trying it’s best to remove firearms ownership from law-abiding citizens.

    if it were not for the NRA and similar organizations, WE would have no firearms rights.

  11. I only hope all the other states think this over and realize that all of our rights are at risk; the federal government is supposed to protect citizens right not ignor the Constitution of the United States: but it seems that the people elected and all their hired thugs, want to dominate over the country and change things to their way of thinking and ignor the bill of rights!

    • Don’t hold your breath waiting for other states to follow suit; they won’t. States like AZ, Idaho & Montana already have few or no gun regulations, as a resident, you can buy a gun over the counter, and walk out with it plus the ammo to go with it.

  12. Proud US vet/American

    Another win for the 2nd Amendment and the Constitution. And a win for America!

  13. Read “More Guns, Less Crime” by Dr. John R. Lott of U of I, Chicago and you will learn the truth of ten years of FBI crime statistics.

    Google “Two Minute Conservative” and you will know.

    • I’m shocked he’s from the University of Illinois at Chicago. Those are DemonRat Liberals that bought the property that President Reagan lived in for a while as a child. Out of their pure unadulterated hatred for President Reagan, a REAL PRESIDENT that was loved by Republicans AND Democrats, they paved over it & made it a parking lot. That was the nastiest, most hateful thing they could do to his legacy, short of pizzing on his grave.

      On the other hand, those dirtbags have hired the likes of Obama & his domestic terrorist buddy, William Ayres. My relatives know if they even mention going to UI, Sh*tcago, I would cut them out of my will.

      • It is surprising and I do not know if he is still there, but he was at the time he did the study and book. At least he was honest enough to report the factual outcome.

  14. Way to go, MS! I live in the Brown Socialist State of Calif., a provence of Mexico thanks to Scary Jerry and his libturd pals. But there are well-armed enclaves of conservatives, none-the-less, and we will not change to suit the commies. I wish I lived in TX or AZ though.

  15. you go, MO!!!

  16. Missouri House of Representatives are real americans not the perverts in the california state government from gov. moon beam to the rest of the democRATS IN sacramento that think they know best what is right for you. They know what part of the constitution they will let you have. LOCK AND LOAD

  17. This is the one piece of information that needs to be shouted from the roof tops…80% of the DemoRats in Congress also belong to the Communist Party of America! The DemoRats have completed bought into and have become NOW the Communist Party and NO DemoRats even exist any longer…!!! Just look at CommieCore and CommieCare, both these are right out of the Communist Manifesto..!!!! Wake the Freak-Up America..!!! God help us, PLEASE!

  18. These people know they are wrong and taking the country in the wrong direction. A well armed citizenry will counter government attempts to totally control the population. And the bad guys need to know what the outcome of robbery attempts or assaults, etc. will be…..you will get shot. Not to mention the influx of illegals from south of our border….who’s checking them for weapons??? I’m keeping mine – I do not care what the government tries to do. You’re going to have to “Come and Take It”…..

  19. I like the law, except I don’t think guns should be allowed in the Court House. Some defendants just don’t wanna go to prison. I know the police are armed, but who wants to be in a small Court House during a gun fight? I think the jail house is another inappropriate place for privet citizens to carry guns………

    • Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. There are just some places that public possession of a firearm is just too dangerous, given the thuggish mentality of the public today. Coffeeshop, yes. Courthouse, no.

  20. Just remember when you vote, it is the democrat party that would disarm you, at this time the MOST IMPORTANT THING WE HAVE IS OUR GUNS. Without them we would already have lost the battle for our freedoms. VOTE AGAINST EVERY DEMOCRAT THEY SIMPLY CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS.

  21. The only thing that has kept this Great country from being invaded by the Japs, Nazi’s, or any other Terrorist group’s is our constitution, which allows all honest, hardworking, taxpaying US Citizen, to be armed, be it in the service, Citizen’s Militia, self protection, hunter. Not counting the Armed Services, we are over 100,000,000 (million) STRONG. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, like California, Chicago, NY, Where only the criminal is allowed to carry a firearm, also if Obama is allowed to have his way, he will succeed in disarming this Great USA to a point the Muslim Brotherhood, & ISIS radicals will gain a foothold, then you will see BEHEADING’S,OF MEN, WOMAN & CHILDREN ALSO THE RAPEING OF WOMEN, LIKE YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN OR HEARD OF BEFORE. It’s time for Obama & his Radical Cohorts to go. Charles A. Stone WW2 Naval Air-Corps Veteran & Life Member NRA.

  22. It’s about time. We all should take Missouri’s lead to rid liberals of blatant stupidity when it comes to firearms.

  23. Switzerland requires all households, if possible, to have a gun to protect themselves and Switzerland has the lowest murder rate in the free world year after year. Missouri will now show the same results as time goes by.

    • Yea but they had to turn in all the government issued ammo, used to be they had 50 rounds for the rifle and 40 for the pistol in sealed cans which were regularly inspected. Now no ammo allowed unless purchased privately which is mostly only available at ranges because the ammo is subsidized by the Swiss government and ammo purchased there must be used there. It is a difficult task to get a permit to carry over there too so they are not so great on the gun laws anymore. It is no longer a requirement to keep the weapon it is optional and if they do they require a permit . To transport firearms laws are similar to some of the stricter laws in the US.

  24. The liberal politicians have never had real jobs in America. They live in la la land.

  25. God bless the state of Missouri.

  26. Too bad Calif. can’t follow this example; gun laws here are out of control, as are the armed criminals in the streets!

    • The two go together, just like the old “cause & effect” principle says. You eliminate weapons from the good guys and the criminals run rampant! And again, if these “legislators” would get their heads out of the sand, they would realize that even if they could eliminate all the guns, they still wouldn’t eliminate crime, murder, and all other sorts of mayhem – all they need to do is observe the middle east, where innocent people are being killed with knives, machetes, bombs, car-bombs, underwear bombs – you name it! Those who are intent on killing can do it with any type of weapon they can lay their hands on – including their own hands – as long as their targets are unarmed! What they need is a good dose of religion!

  27. The Missouri legislature should send gun legislation training manuals to Mass., Conn., Illinois, Calif. DC .Ohio and several other states with draconian gun laws!

    • We’re OK in Illinois, when they moved the outhouse to Mich it left the hole called Chicago, and that’s how the trouble started.

  28. Go Missouri GO!!


  30. Good for the great state of Missouri,Now we only have about 45 more states to do the same…….(some other states have already done the same)

  31. Way to go, Missouri.

  32. So could that happen on a Federal level. Not sure if the HR of the union can override a veto by the Obamanator. Does executive order give him total dictatorial powers like Pol Pot or Idi Amin? Just wondering because we all know this will come into play over the next horrendous two years. Uphold the constitution my ass he will…

  33. Here is a favorite quote of mine. If someone can find a bulldozer big enough to yank Jay Nixons head out his rear so he can read this, please do so.

    “To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and

    law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their

    own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless,

    and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and

    liberties as the lawless will allow… For society does not control

    crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves

    to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by

    forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected

    behavior of the law-abiding.” —Jeff Snyder From The Patriot (Federalist)

  34. If only NY Had the stones to throw out the Correuption in The State

  35. Watch out for Eric and his goons. They seem to think that our Constitution is just a suggestion and not the law of the land. They will spend millions in tax payers dollars trying to stop a fully legal law….because they have unlimited money….OURS!

  36. Thank You Missouri house that is great job for the people Have you noticed that all the court houses that are suppose to work for the people the first thing you get is unloaded by an armed police and then scanned before you can use it and if you ask for help you get told that I am not a lawyer so I can not tell you that and then they charge you. They all get union wage and retirement and medical on the tax payer. Does any thing seem wrong with this

  37. The Second Amendment is the last line of defence against VILE LIBERAL SCUM NAZIS.

  38. When California tightened its gun laws to be the most restrictive in the US, their gun crimes zoomed to being the highest in the US. It seems that knowing the general public was unarmed and defenseless encouraged criminals to became more aggressive.
    Criminals don’t abide by gun laws and law abiding citizens don’t need tighter gun control. But why let logic get in the way?

  39. Congratulations Missouri. πŸ™‚

  40. I agree with CaptGene, we need to have a revolution to protect us from the liberal agenda. Knowing that most liberal people are on welfare, I doubt that they will get off their asses to fight. I say “down with this goverment” the first one to be hanged will be the president.

  41. My gun permit was issued in 12/15/1791— By the SECOND AMENDMENT , it was given to me by the UNITED STATED OF AMERICA. EXPIRATION: NEVER. Charles A. Stone WW2 Veteran & life member NRA.

  42. Too bad Gov. Mary Fallen vetoed the bill to carry in Oklahoma.

  43. Too bad the liberal state legislatures won’t follow suit; it would take a clean sweep of their legislatures before this type of gun laws could ever be enacted. Mass, NY, NJ, Calif., Illinios, and a long list of other states are all mentally set against private owners of firearms.

  44. WOW! A state where people have brains!!!

  45. We all need to be aware that the day the US Govt. takes the guns from the citizens, FREEDOM DIES, all over the world.

  46. Just pogey bait to get some press

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