Why Gun Freedom Always Wins

According to Kevin Drum at Mother Jones – a fiercely liberal publication – the real problem with gun control is that most people in favor of stricter laws really don’t care all that much. According to Drum, polls show that most Americans favor background checks. But politicians can’t pass real gun reform legislation because gun-control supporters consider it a low-level issue while Second Amendment supporters consider it one of the most important. Until both sides care equally, he says, the status quo will remain.

For once, Mother Jones is absolutely right.

And while Drum means this as a call-to-action for his readership, imploring them to go out and get fanatical about gun control, it should also serve as a reminder to those of us on the other end of the spectrum. The Second Amendment doesn’t just stand because it is written down in the Bill of Rights. We’ve seen how casually the left can work around the Constitution when they really want to. Our rights stand only when we defend them vigorously and tirelessly, even when it’s difficult or unpopular to do so.

No gun-rights supporter wants to fly the flag for guns the day after a tragedy like the one in Oregon. And in a just world, we wouldn’t have to. The mountain of evidence that says gun control doesn’t work is irrefutable. And even if it wasn’t, the Constitution stands. Attempts to weaken our gun rights would not even surface after these tragedies. Stricter laws would be off the table, clearly infringing on the right to bear arms. And then we could stop fighting these battles and start focusing on what we can really do to make a difference.

But it’s not a just world, and Democrats use each and every one of these tragedies to their political advantage. They don’t fail because they’re incompetent; they fail because conservatives won’t let them succeed. And as unenviable a position as it is to defend guns when the bodies are still warm, it’s a position we must take again and again. Because if Democrats are going to callously use these innocent victims as pawns in their game, we have no choice but to make our stand.

The alternative is to start giving ground away. First, universal background checks. Next, a federal registry. Next, increased restrictions on who can own a gun. Ammo restrictions. Assault rifle bans. Does anyone really believe that these liberals want to stop at “common sense” gun laws?

Liberalism is poison. And you don’t make things better by adding a little bit of poison in with your conservatism any more than you would improve a meal by adding a little bit of strychnine. And if you had to make a scene at Thanksgiving to avoid getting poisoned by the turkey, you wouldn’t hesitate for a second.

With a little encouragement from the media and the president, Americans who sit the fence on gun control may be ready to start caring. We can’t count on their complacency to protect the Bill of Rights. We must be passionate and ready. That killer in Oregon didn’t have the right to take those lives, and he doesn’t have the right to take our freedoms.

 

 

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156 comments

  1. They just don’t know when to leave well enough alone. More gun laws will not change what is. If a crook or bad guy wants guns he will find them. If he wants to shoot up a school he will shoot it up. If someone wants something bad enough it will happen. Wake up America More control will not work. We just have to deal with what happens. Arm the teachers or provide ways people or students can arm themselves like we here in Texas. Or both. We are starting open carry in a few months and I look for the crime to drop. Who in their right mind would go into a convience store to rob it when the people in there are armed? I am not saying it will not happen but it is very unlikely.

    • champion2211,
      I have to agree with what you say. We need to fix the people problems. But that is not going to happen until we totally overhaul mental health. That is not going to happen anytime soon. So, what other choices do we have? Arm ourselves. Idaho, like Texas, arms its schools. Rural schools are somewhat at risk as are some small town schools. But no system is perfect. We have metal detectors on all doors as well. Concealed carry is legal anywhere in the state and even open carry is permitted with a valid hunting license. Concealed carry is also permitted on all college campuses. Many rural schools have a teacher who is also a hunter and no slouch when it comes to weapons use. But the bad guy always has the element of surprise. So any public place is always vulnerable. But we have reduced the odds quite a bit.

      • .
        Mental health is not the problem
        “But that is not going to happen until we totally overhaul mental health.”

        .
        The real problem is the lack or morality in the culture. There is no such thing as a nip-slip or a crotch flash or accidental camel toes. a moral person would NEVER put themselves in the position of having this “accident” occur. You cannot entirely blame the children for exposing themselves. This is what they are being taught at home. I recently read where miley cyrus’s mother had a supposed nip slip. Slip hell, it was planned.
        .

        • TeaPartyPatriot,
          I did not say mental health was the problem. I said nothing is going to happen with mental health until we overhaul it. I said we need to fix the people problems. There is more than one people problem. Morality, or the lack thereof, is certainly one of them. But we cannot legislate that, either. Drugs are another very serious people problem. Therefore fixing the people problems is a huge undertaking and not likely to happen anytime soon. But we have to start somewhere. Serious mental illness improvements might reduce the number of mass shootings. But overall shootings, especially in families are other issues that can be helped by reforming mental illness If we can get on top of total understanding of the human mind. But according to the expert I have talked to, that is a ways off yet.
          Meanwhile, we have to protect ourselves. Rock throwing is not going to work, either.

        • I believe it’s just plain, ” no morals, dignity, and definitely no class”. I feel that people who, ” accidentally fall, show camel toe (gross)” have had no one really teach them what shame is.

        • While I agree that mental health isnt the major player in this, it still should be reformed to make a difference. People by nature can be cruel and violent, and guns or not, we will never stop any tragedy as long as there is evil in the hearts of men and women. The left always blames guns using emotional hyperbole, without ever looking at the facts, and that a firearms last year were used to stop or save someone from violent crime over
          2.9 million times last year according to FBI stats. And thats something the left conveniently leaves out, because it doesnt fit their narrative.

          • I don’t think it is necessarily someone being intentionally cruel or mean. Rather I think it is the totally self centered attitude of many of the current generation.the If it feels good do it attitude. the I don’t give a damn about you or your morals if I want to do something in spite of who it hurts I will do it and you can go to hell attitude.

      • Thank deinstitutionalization for that…

        • rene,
          At least the HIPPA law needs revision.

          • I agree, but the state I live in has already shut down a few institutes that were pretty good.

          • rene,
            That is unfortunate. But one of the critical issues for me is that because of the HPPA law, no family member can get help from even Social Security for an adult in need of lesser mental issues such as anxiety. Anxiety is big cause of many lesser shootings. Very serious mental issues are much more rare and happen less frequently. But even then, it is not the mental illness as such but the environment in which the individual resides. Sandy Hook and Umpqua were cases of a mother who was leading their child down a path to making a splash in the news due to lack of attention at home and in public. To a certain degree, so was Tucson and Charleston.

          • HIPPA is a joke since insurance companies, two Federal agencies were given access under the Tarp Law, and most Federal security agencies have access. In addition they can be hacked by the amateur hour folks. The only people who can’t get the data are you who paid for it. Maybe not for court usage.

          • Greyguy,
            My family’s concern is that we cannot even get anyone at Social Security or Medicaid to talk to us about help for a family member who has a real issue with anxiety and anger. She cold be helped by professionals if only we could get them to test her. But the minute we mention another family member they refuse to talk to us. Two family members are attorneys and still cannot get any help. The family member’s own medical doctor got absolutely nowhere either. The HIPPA law does serve a good purpose but it needs to be modified in order to get agencies to even make medical/mental testing, evaluation and assistance.

          • Unfortunately, most organizations and bureaucrats use the HIPPA law as a way of avoiding answering or helping folks, as in your case getting a person with a condition to explain it satisfactorily is probably near impossible. Yet when the same folks decide to use your information against you, look out, or it gets out some how, Think we will ever find out about Hillary’s bad health like we are entitled to before electing her? Better yet I’d like tohave my daughter do a psyc profile on her.

          • Greyguy,
            I agree. Health issues can backfire on anyone anytime.
            I wish near impossible were possible. Social Security and Medicaid simply say they cannot discuss the issues with us. End of conversation.

    • and what about roseburg? a guy who is a whackjob legally getting an arsenal. is that not the very definition of a poorly constructed and/or enforced law?

      • He passed the Holy Grail, “Background Check”, that you people wanted. Sorry bad guys are going to be bad guys. And what the “Gun Free Zone” sign did not stop him from carrying those guns, WTF. Are bad guys exempt from following the laws?, or do they just not follow them which makes them bad guys.

        • in your opening line… you make the strongest case possible for making the holy grail of background checks EVEN MORE stringent. by definition, it is insufficient to do the job it is supposed to do. we need stronger background checks… and you made the best case possible for that argument. so, amen brother!

          • The background checks are not the problem. The problem is the fact the input from various agencies is far, far behind and some agencies don’t input at all. The reason being it is too expensive to hire more people to do the job. Until we get off this “too expensive” crap and start doing what needs to be done, this behavior will continue. Those agencies that do input to the NICS data base are seeing little or nor problems with results from background checks. Seems to me there are too damned many politicians that feel money spent on frivolities within their voting base is far more important than the public’s safety. Infrastructure (buildings, new roads, etc) are fine IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO DO THEM. But shouldn’t the public’s safety be first ?? It sure as hell is in my book…I’ll put up with a rough road if it means more police officers on the beat.

          • amen catman. this is not a question of if we can do it but do we have the will to do it. we have the resources and the know how and the technology. what we lack is the will to allocate monies towards enhanced public safety. for example, we never talk about how the feds build all our roads… but think about it: its the biggest subsidy to the car and oil industry that exists. those products simply wouldn’t work if we didn’t have roads… but no one talks of that. take a small fraction of that subsidy and put it towards public safety in the form of beefed up background checks and grieving parents don’t have to live the nightmare of a lost child. small price to pay if only we cared about human life.

          • The lack of data input doesn’t appear to be the problem. We don’t have all the facts on this monster yet, but what we do have is (1) he wasn’t a convicted felon; (2) he had never been adjudicated mentally incompetent. I know a lot of folks who take prescription drugs for such things as anxiety and depression who maintain 100% normally. It seems in this case it would have been the doctor who prescribed his drugs to determine his mental state, and if he suspected a problem, either don’t give the prescriptions and report him to mental health professionals who can then evaluate and submit the findings (if found to be a danger) to NCIS. I’m all for more money going to law enforcement and mental health, but in this case the problem appears to fall back on the prescribing doctor.

          • i bet the blame can lie in many directions and the doctor would be an obvious one. the neighbors had some horror stories about him… maybe they should have sounded the alarm. he was writing on social media, perhaps some sort of flagging can be done automatically (there’ll be loads of false positives… but not all will be false). we attempt such complex efforts when it comes to tracking potential terrorists and when vetting potential immigrants applying legally. given that more people die every year from guns in the hands of sick folk than die, in this country, from either terrorists of illegal immigrants, seems like we should put our energy and enforcement efforts where the high risk is.

            we are famously bad at crafting responses according to actual risk. rather we use perceived risk and perceived and actual risk (e.g., radon in the home) are known to be out of sync.

            so, in the gun debate, we have to forms of perceived risk: conservatives: dictatorial govt from which we need to defend ourselves. liberals: gun nuts shooting our kids in school. both are perceived fears… both have foundations in some fact and history… but which is the greater ACTUAL risk? for me, with the utterly personal nature of losing a kid… i put that abstraction above the other abstraction of our govt gone rogue and buying out the military.

            i want laws to protect my kids from hypothetical killers… more than i want laws to protect my society from a government gone wrong.

            i am beginning to understand the debate more… its helpful writing with you.

          • I agree with a lot of what you said. However it reminds me of one Ex Marine a couple of years ago, and it scares the crap out of me. This Marine, posted on face book his beliefs obummer should be criminal charged for some of his crimes. A short while later he was visited by the Secret Service and local law enforcement. They interrogated him, searched his home (I believe without a warrant), found no firearms (he told them he didn’t own any). The Feds instructed the locals to do a 72 hour commitment and hauled him off to the local mental health facility. His offense, daring to voice his opinion. He was held long past the lawful 72 hours. Without any evidence of being a danger to himself or others, law enforcement got a judge to allow them hold him longer. They then transferred him to a facility 6 hours away from his family. Finally, a higher judge heard the case from his family lawyers as to what was happening and ordered him released. Can’t recall for sure, but I believe he was held for more than a month. My point is, this administration is famous for violating the rights of it’s citizens.

            As far as the people who knew this monster was a danger to folks, I agree maybe they should have brought it up to the authorities. But remember, they already believed he was a danger and may have feared reprisal. Also, it comes back to the funds L.E. and mental health professionals you and I have already agreed is needed.

    • An ARMED society is a POLITE society, PERIOD!

  2. Be cause there are more combat vets and NRA members and patriots, than there are Demon-rats and lying Repub’s and gun-grabbers and Clintons and free gun zone morons and those who think a gun can load its self go out in the world and shoot people. Got it !!! you moronic imbeciles ?

  3. “The mountain of evidence that says gun control doesn’t work is irrefutable.”
    Japan. Refuted.

    • Chicago!!! IRREFUTABLED!!!!!! DUH!

      • 1. Look up the lojik behind ‘falsification’.
        2. Chicago. You mean like wen sumwun tryz to dry a patch uv pavement with a broom and a napkin at the bottom uv a full swimming pool?
        3. In addition to Japan, Germany, France, England, Australia, etc. – basicly all other 1st world nationz. Thus, rufuted, embalmed, funeraled, buried.

        • Detroit, New York, California. Oh we can do this all day. Strict gun laws but still the highest murder/crime rate in the Nation.

          • The ghetto supplies the most number of deaths, like Detroit, New York, Chicago, New Orleans, etc. get rid of that crap and the USA is one of the safest places on earth regarding gun deaths.

          • No. You cant do it all day. Your lojik iz proven junk and you woud run out uv examplez in 10 secondz anyway.

        • First, please learn to spell for God’s sake! You obviously never watch the news I guess. Anyway, my suggestion is Don’t own a friggin gun!! Meanwhile, I will keep mine and you can move to one of these supposedly safe country.

          • SPELLING IZ FOR CHUMPS! And immortalz also, I suppoze. If you know youre going to live forever, spending a decade memorizing junk may not bother you too much.

            Youve heard the stats. You are much more likely to be injured or killed if you own a gun.

          • no, spelling is for anyone with at least a High School education. It is pretty hard to make an argument when a person can’t even figure out what in hell you are even talking about. I have btw heard the stats, and you are so full of crap your eyes are turning color. But, I suppose one has to be able to read to actually know what they are talking about. Which I am sure to you is also “FOR CHUMPS”. So, as I said before if you don’t like guns don’t own a friggin’ gun!!! I chose to keep mine.

    • the weirdest part is that congress has specifically made illegal the mere researching of gun violence statistics in this nation. that’s the most bizarre law we ever had…

      just one reference (not the most objective): http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/12/gun_violence_research_nra_and_congress_blocked_gun_control_studies_at_cdc.html

      • Made illegal?

          • CDC scientists.. They should be banned altogether. Congress is 100% right. Their not banning science, their banning junk political science. Look to true researchers. How about the once liberal Professor John Lott JR. He began his research to prove guns caused crime. He ended up proving the opposite, changed his political views and has written several books (More Guns, Less Crime). Here is a true researcher. He enters thinking one way, his research proves his beliefs wrong and…Imagine this, he doesn’t change the facts to support his beliefs, he reports the true facts. You won’t find that in obummers CDC, they find whatever obummer tells them to find.

          • now you have entered my area of expertise: there is good research and bad. good researchers and bad ones. experts can easily spot shoddy work just like your mechanic can quickly see when a previous repair was done poorly. when done properly and removed from politicization… research is a powerful tool that is, as you suggest, self correcting and conservative (i.e., cautious) by design. if congress were researcher themselves… they would not restrict research… they would make sure that the proper peer and external review means were in place to assure a robust and compelling research effort. but, alas, congress has slipped down the rabbit hole of politicization… they cannot comprehend research nuances any more than i can understand how the HTML code of this website works.

          • Excellent…And you have just proven my point. Keep research out of the hands of government. You probably won’t like this, but I don’t believe government should even fund private research. Since I believe the two biggest problems with government today is almost total corruption and political correctness, they have no business in the field of research. In my mind, that corrupts the end results of the research.

          • historically, the govt has a poor track record with certain areas of research. but, among all the politicized folks… there’s a lot of good eggs too. just like with guns… we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. we need to keep working to make sure that what needs to happen (good research, meaningful but not overly restrictive gun control etc.) works well. its just about doing what we do well… for all our sakes. over and out for a while.

          • hi marty, listen to today’s NPR story with this as its title (so you can search it): Es-Rep. Dickey regrets restrictive law on gun violence research. this is the guy who created the legislation. his intent was to stop the CDC from gathering data specifically for gun control legislation but it stymied ALL research (and that was not his intention). its a quick and interesting story. but the fact is that no government monies go to fund gun violence research of any variety… and, that is why we really don’t know deeply how our regs affect our society.

          • Thanks, I’ll look it up. That’s the problem with this administration. Just because Congress refuses to fund something doesn’t mean it won’t get funded. Obummer is famous for taking funds from one source and using them for another. I truly believe this administration will do everything it can in support of gun control, whether legally or illegally. I’m not saying this practice hasn’t been done in prior administrations as it’s very possible. But an honest person would admit this is without a doubt the most anti gun administration in the history of the US.

  4. The problem with the liberal mindset is they want to pass feel good laws, not effective laws. They know down deep no amount of gun control laws would have prevented any of the mass shooting cases in our history. This idiot in Oregon passed his background checks. Even an outright total ban on firearms will not prevent these shootings as we all know the crooks will never turn in their guns. I believe every mass shooting in recent history but two were committed in ‘gun free’ zones. Eliminating the gun free zones will go a long way to dramatically slow down these crimes. Most all of the anti gunners said when the states were going to ‘right to carry’ laws, there would be “blood in the streets”. They have been proven completely and utterly wrong. The same would be the case when we end the gun free zones.

    • you make a very good case for increasing the intensity of the background check. clearly, as it runs now, its ineffective. solution: make it effective (i.e., more scrutinizing). you logically make the very argument for a stronger set of laws… not an abandonment of them because the current ones are ineffectual.

      • I never said to abandon the current laws. I said we don’t need more as we don’t even enforcement the 10’s of thousands of laws we have on the books now. You tell me 1 law you would pass that would have prevented this incident from happening, JUST 1. You can’t. and yet you want more laws! Just because it will make you feel good. Not because it will prevent more shootings.

        • i apologize… i was not clear. i don’t want MORE laws… i want more EFFECTIVE laws. however that happens. in the case of this moron in roseburg… everyone said that the guy was sullen, reclusive, disturbed, prone to tantrums, uncommunicative etc. that’s a profile of a moron (or, more to the point, someone you don’t necessarily want heavily armed). okay, so talking out of my ass, here’s a law change i would promote: a full psychological assessment of the potential gun owner. trained team of objective and politically neutral psychologists sitting in judgement of the person requesting a gun.

          okay, so that won’t happen… and it’s almost ludicrous to suggest it… but that would have prevented that guy from legally obtaining the guns. then, make it a life term (or some other serious deterrent) for selling guns illegally to anyone… and, voila! no roseburg… at least a far lower likelihood of roseburg.

          now i am talking out of my ass… i am not professional on this topic. but, those who are… if they can grow out of their adolescent immaturity, can sit down and craft some laws that really have a chance of working. that’s all… not too much to ask from our legislators.

          • I wish it could be that easy. First it would be difficult to hire that many psychologists, and near impossible to find them who were politically neutral LOL. The back log would end up being years, and just not humanly possible. And as far as preventing the idiot from doing this, probably not. I can’t tell you how many people who have been released from mental health facilities (either from law enforcement 72 hour committals or long term facilities) who have then committed some horrible crimes. And my experience only comes from 1 city where I spent 31 years in law enforcement. I’m just saying Psychologists are not perfect, and can’t possibly prevent all these wackos from obtaining firearms. I will repeat myself, the only real way to prevent these mass shootings is by allowing armed citizens to CCW and ending gun free zones. There is simply no other alternative.

          • Let’s be serious here. If you really go by mental competency then at least 75% in Washington would not qualify including the azzclown in the White House.

          • Probably closer to 90%.

          • true… and i wouldn’t trust half of congress or those in the oval office to dogsit for me let alone carry a weapon.

          • you are correct on all counts… even the LOL. however, we do this routinely for people legally seeking a green card. my friend (commander in the israeli military, married to a US citizen, with an advanced degree and a good job and perfect record) just went through months of review, analysis, interviews, more review, more analysis etc… and, just finally, got his green card. imagine how much more complicated if he was from any neighboring country to israel? point is… all he wanted was a right to work!! not so dangerous sounding as a right to carry a loaded firearm. seems like if we can do it for a right to work… we can do something similar for a right to carry a weapon on our streets).

            hard yes… no doubt… but its not impossible. AFter all, as the great Amory Lovins said, “if it exists, it must be possible”. it exists already in another branch of government (homeland security)… so, it can happen in our domestic security branch too.

          • I know what you mean about your friend. Too bad we can’t make as difficult for the illegals to stay. Firearms are purchased by the millions, and we simply can’t handle the backlog you suggest. Legal immigration also takes years, but it’s not a life or death issue like some firearms purchases. A victim of a stalking, violent crime or whatever. That person has the right to purchase a firearm, go thru the instant background check, and walk out with the gun. If you want to require a safety class on first time purchasers, fine. But where does the government (local, state or feds) get off denying this man/woman their right of self defense?

          • your vignette is a compelling one to be sure. however, in a more perfect union, we have the police to help out with that… and do we, as a nation, want this wild west scene you are painting? perhaps… or maybe not. If the police were better funded and trained… then that individual could get the protection needed from them. in the absence of that resource, i don’t know how to proceed. that woman (let’s assume) could hurt some innocent bystander if emotional (understandably) and poorly trained. more guns just increases the likelihood of more accidents. your issue is a hard one… i don’t have a ready answer.

          • As an ex police firearms instructor, I’m all for training, the more the better. But your fears are exactly what the liberal anti gunners predicted when states became ‘right to carry’ states. And after years and years of people legally CCW, those fears never materialized. And now decades later, CCW persons are extremely less likely to commit a crime with their weapon then the non CCW person on a per capita basis. So give your fears a rest. Please read Professor John Lott’s book More Guns, Less Crime. Yes, it’s possible for an armed citizen to shoot and miss a mass murderer, striking an innocent, but wouldn’t you rather take that chance at preventing the murders to continue on. Hell, under duress, police officers often miss their target and on occasion hit an innocent, but usually also take out the bad guy. Again, we don’t live in utopia, nothing is perfect.

          • so, i’ll admit, given how many guns and nuts we have… i would prefer that my kid’s elementary school (next to a bank) had an armed person or, rather, an army of folks there. (not the teachers or admin… but trained police folk.) i would drop my kid off with a lot less angst than i do if that were the case. (in fact, i am fixing the wall that divides the bank from the school because i alone am concerned about it in its broken condition.) but, troll this site and you will see most people are afraid of the government … so, what it comes down to on both sides is fear. i fear loonies with guns, others fear the govt. all fear. what a sad state of affairs we’ve created for ourselves. i’ll just take some Valium and call you in the morning and keep my head low. thanks for writing… got to get back to work. its been helpful reading your posts… i am learning a lot from you. thanks.

          • I absolutely agree. Times are really tough, and true answers are hard to come by. Stay safe out in the jungle we call society, good luck my friend.

          • actually, (couldn’t resist) i work in the real jungle… the one with trees and monkey and jaguars and vipers… and, wow… you have no idea how safe i feel down there by comparison to up here. all i have to do to stay alive down there is not be a moron. up here, i can be an upstanding citizen and i’m still rolling the dice. take care… i’ll look for you on this site… you provide a breath of refreshing thoughtful critique set apart from the morass or knee jerk contrarianism masquerading as critical thinking.

          • I left the concrete jungle when I retired 10 years ago and now live in a rural area in the forest, but not a jungle. I will definitely look forward to our future discussions.

          • I agree with the armed guard thing at schools, and even though my kids are now out of school doesnt make it any less important to me. In Idaho especially in the bigger cities, they have armed police officers at all the schools, and wouldnt object to a few more at each of them, and ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. At least we would know our tax dollars are going to good use, and not government waste.

          • While the police do an excellent job, when you need to defend yourself, they can’t be on the spot at the correct time as a rule. You must be prepared to protect yourself. In most cases, the police can only investigate your demise, not prevent it.

          • agreed. my approach is more prophylactic (can i use that word on this site?). i live in a sleepy town on the outskirts and don’t cause anyone any trouble. that solves most of my concerns… but of course there are always others looking for trouble… i choose not to have guns but i do have some pepper spray designed for grizzlies and polar bears (part of my work)… so if someone did enter, they’d get quite the hot enchilada.

          • As you said in a more perfect union, but your heart is in the right place. I conceal carry, and train long hours in being proficient in firing my weapons, but also safe handling them. I dont believe making anyone take a course to obtain a firearm will do any good, if they are going to just disregard it when they walk out the door. As you said though there are alot of tangibles that we are dealing with.

          • true that… but we can’t avoid making laws because we know they’ll be broken. if, at the core, they are a good law… we have to make them and do what we can to persuade people (one way or another) that they are worth following. if you were my neighbor, i would feel safer… not more insecure.

          • Neutral and objectively trained psychologists, yeah right. You give the government way too much credit.How about fix the mental health registry, so it becomes available to the NICS check. The loon in Oregon had been online talking about doing this before he days before he carried this out, yet no one said anything. One of the federal laws is about straw purchases, meaning if you buy a gun for someone and they use it in a crime, you are just as responsible, but I dont see the mother of this fruitcake being indicted. Just another feel good law not being enforced.

      • The reality is an FFL can refuse to sell anyone a gun for any reason they feel like, its not a bakery. So if you act the slightest bit off they can refuse you. Along the border during Fast and Furious the FFL’s were complaining to the ATF that they suspected straw purchases and other malfeasance and were told to proceed! [huge amounts of documented reports], personally I think I might have started refusing some of the sales, I have seen it done in gun shops.

        • I’ve seen some cases of true insanity where the person was able to hide his problems without detection. I wouldn’t expect a lay person to be able to identify these cases. It takes a mental health professional and they can’t get them all right, all the time. That’s a utopia.

          • Didn’t mean to lay the responsibility at the feet of the FFL, but there is the almighty dollar to consider as well.

        • righto… simply put a gun store owner is a). unqualified to make such snap judgements and, b). has a monetary incentive to err on the side of the sale. i don’t think that level of caution rises to the level of a full-fledged national policy that will keep us safe from one another.

          • Never said it would, especially with a monetary incentive to do the opposite, but I have seen it done.

          • of course, as with every profession… there are responsible members and rogue members. a national policy has to be more robust than that…. i know you agree.

          • Why are you so bent on giving the government more power when the problem lies else where. Nothing here will solve the problem, but divine intervention followed by incarcerating/hospitalizing the person who tries to purchase the gun so they can’t try again, sounds like the Minority Report.

          • when one feels helpless, one looks to bigger entities for support. for some, it’s god. for others, still perhaps idealistic, its the government. i just want to feel safe again in my own neighborhood and schools.

          • If you look to the government for safety You are drinking the Kool aid. This is the Myth of the FIRST RESPONDER a policeman, fireman, EMT; YOU ARE THE FIRST RESPONDER, ALWAYS…If you wait for these other good and noble folks, especially the police, you will probably die or not fare very well, they are the clean up crew. I know how to stop bleeding, escape buildings, and defend myself…I look unassuming, but don’t be deceived, I respond first, and the government in some cases is displeased with me and my friends’ efforts, until I ask what took them so long! AAA is sometimes quicker. The reason you do not feel safe is your government is the problem creating false expectations and has created a poor economic environment coupled with these expectations, and blames anyone with even a bit of money as not paying their fair share…less than 50% pay income tax. Remember Alex deToquville said the downfall of democracy would be when the majority fiuredout they could fleece those better off than themselves by taxing them to benefit themselves…I think we have arrived and some are not waiting for institutional taxation, they are doing it at the point of a gun or a knife and being egged on by the progressive pols. Look inward my friend.

          • i don’t rely on the govt for safety i rely on my wits and ability to avoid problems before they materialize. but, kids are vulnerable and that scares me. no amount of weaponry or know how can save the kids if some nutjob wants to do them harm. to put my fear in perspective, i work in third world countries in remote areas. everyone there has weapons (for hunting so they can eat) and machetes (for everything else) and down there and i have no fear about anything. But, down there, people aren’t sick. they are too busy just feeding themselves and taking care of one another. up here, people are lost in virtual realities, violence, and entitlement with so much free time and so little direction or purposed, depressed and drugged… and with lots of weapons. those people scare me because they are lost. People down in the jungles where i am… are not lost at all. my own culture scares me. that’s my issue.

          • I think we are coming at the point from different directions, but the conclusion is that when the government provides too much for people and they get used to it and do not have to be self sufficient, their dependency saps their will to succeed as well as their self esteem, which means their is no respect for what they have because they have not earned it. All that translates into little or no respect for their fellow man and his property. What got me going was your comment about looking to larger entities for support which is usually a set up for those entities to become your nanny or crutch in ones life, which is what they want to secure your loyalty; which rarely ends well. Look at the US, as the government has been systematically been detrying the Middle class and making them more dependent as they bring in more illegals and legals and put them on the dole. Most Blacks had dignity and self respect until LBJ put them back on the government plantation with welfare programs which have been extended to many others as the Democrats have pandered for votes. Unfortunately the government through its misguided overzealous efforts has come to view business as a cash cow with evil intent and the large ones have gotten in the lobbying business to buy them off. The little guys who create all the jobs are saying screw it, and sending their manufacturing overseas, moving to low tax states and in some cases, starting to move their assets outside the US. If this were 40 years ago I would consider that strategy.

          • i hear you and mostly agree… and although i am more liberal than anyone on this site, i come full circle around and become rather uber libertarian on many issues. govt can accomplish certain things the rank and file cannot individually (nor, do we show ability to collectively). as such, certain things do remain within the realm of government. I am a classic democrat in that my particular brand of big government is controlling corporations from polluting me, mine and the planet too quickly. i am not the republican sort of big government which presumes to tell me (or others) whom we can marry, what we can do in our homes and bedrooms, etc. government has its place and our nation is divided on what that place should be. when it comes to gun violence, i feel that i can only do so much to protect my kids when they are away from my protection. so, that is when i do rely upon the city, state or federal govt to help out with common sense, enforceable and well enforced gun control laws. my vote would be to move in that direction: common sense, enforceable and well enforced. not more… not bigger.. not slippery slope… just what i said. i don’t feel i can do it all myself.

          • You just hit on the problem, the radicals on both sides of the equation. A few well thought out regs usually do the trick, but the overzealous and uniformed power grabbers with their own agendas at Federal Agencies have over regulated many companies out of existence or out of the country with bad science and meaningless rules that help no one. And when we let any religious group tell others what to do, some thing is wrong with the system…that is not conservative, that is pandering, no matter which side you are on. Somehow the radical left and right are running amock, so old time liberals and conservatives [and I do not mean moderates] are frozen out of the conversation].

          • I’m sorry that you feel you might be a threat to me, I don’t know why you say I need to be safe from you and I hope you can get over it. If it helps you, I have no animosity towards you, unless you attack me or mine, and I will then be forced to defend myself.

          • i know i pose no threat to you but you don’t know that i don’t. same with the kid down the street. but, somewhere, in both our sleepy communities, there are sick folks heavily armed who are a different story. if i didn’t have young kids, i wouldn’t care so much… but i do and i know they are defenseless when out of my immediate company. that, honestly, scares me every day.

      • We can’t legislate our way out of the problem. Hell they dont enforce the laws on the books now, so lets make up more useless laws that will only affect law abiding citizens, and not criminals, hence thats why their criminals they dont follow the laws. What we have is people issues, not gun issues, because violent criminals will always find a way to hurt some one, guns or not.

  5. Responsible Gun owners should be LEADING the fight for tighter controls. Responsible hunters disrespect the drunk idiots who go out and shoot up the forest without any respect for nature. Responsible ranchers want healthy ecosystems and environments for their cattle to graze. Responsible drivers don’t mind cops patrolling for DUI, road rage and other offenses. So, why then, do responsible gun owners not lead the fight for responsible gun control laws? i just don’t get it and cannot be convinced that no responsible gun owners exist….

    • The most “responsible” will be the first to feel the heavy hand of governmental control first. Those of us who are responsible should not be subject to the whim of the government because of the irresponsibility of others who do not care….Or as the BEGGER in Fiddler on the Roof said to the Business Man who gave him less of a donation to his begging than last week because business was down “Why should I suffer because you had a bad week!” That is how the government works, the responsible suffer and the perpetrators are chagrined if they are impacted, just like Baltimore and Ferguson. And I do mind being stopped by the Police if I have done nothing wrong! This mentality of yours is called “gradualism” toward a statist society, where we capitulate to every demand of the state, even if it makes no sense; and this makes no sense except letting the camel’s nose into your tent.

      • nice reference to the fiddler. the gun laws that we have created (or, more to the point, the ineffectiveness of them in quantity or enforcement or scope or whatever) becomes a public health issue given how many innocents are impacted directly or otherwise. so, its a political issue whether or not we like that. and, yes, in a democratic society (we can dream… can’t we?), we must sometimes give up something because there are cheaters in the system. what’s wrong with waiting for an intense background check to complete? its the responsible way to go.

        my point is, in a system that works well… if you don’t do anything wrong… you won’t get stopped. now, i recognize that by my being white, male, mild mannered, normal looking, normal behaving, normal driving… i just don’t get stopped UNLESS i am doing something wrong. (if i were black and living in the city, it might be different.)

        if you are a responsible (or soon to be) gun owner… you should fear nothing beyond a bit of a delay in getting your gun. if you are a nutjob… and the system works well… you get denied. not so outlandish an idea…

        • There are some stores I will not deal with because their system seems to delay, delay, delay for no reason and this will become the norm, if we let the government get away with it, again GRADUALISM which is Obama’s stock and trade. I heard a Rep from the Brady Bunch speak awhile back and their definition of an Assault Weapon sounded more like my 50 year old Ithaca Shotgun and 1911, than an AR and M1A1; when asked to clarify the person said, we will eventually get there, which is how Obama thinks as well. Any law directed at a legal gun owners that I have ever heard solves nothing. Its the mental health system that sucks…do you realize there were more mental health beds in the US after the Civil War then there are right now! And with everyone cutting budgets? Obviously the quality is different, but that fact alone should give us pause. The use of medication like psychotropics [especially if you stop taking them suddenly] is scary, and all the other meds with warnings of suicide and violence are astounding. We keep looking at guns, but the problems really lie elsewhere.

          They asked Einstein if he had an hour to solve a problem how would he spend his time…the reply was 55 minutes DEFINING the problem, then the last five minutes doing the easy part, solving it. Something tells me we are in minute one or two of defining the problem, and everyone with an agenda wants to jump in with their sound bite solution, and we should be defining it a bit better.

          • They closed down Mental Health facilities, putting hundreds of “sick” on the streets, today it’s almost impossible to get someone committed, even attempted suicide is a 72 hour hold then on their own to follow recomendations, there is enough blame to go around, but guns don’t kill, people do, if not a gun it would be a knife or a cub, etc.

          • My point exactly, but the root cause is on one side we have the ACLU types letting every mental case live out their fantasies in our world with little restrictions and with few restrictions on their gun rights; yet those same folks want to restrict the entire populations right to even defend themselves in their homes. This is just one part of the bigger problem I would like to see defined. The ACLU types do not fight for our privacy on emails, FISA searches, Obama thinking he can restrict gun purchases based on where a check is sent to a Social Security recipient or if a soldier asks for help after being hit by an IED, or IRS records being released to other agencies, but they stand up for the insane person’s right to privacy after criminal acts. Does anyone think this plays into the problem we are discussing? Especially when the Government has been granted the right to look at or individual medical records by two agencies not by the ACA, but under the TARP Act. Once again this is called gradualism, where are rights are eroded a smidgen at a time. Add this to the pile of items that ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

          • We have had problems for a longgg time, each time a change is made, things get worse. First it’s no one’s business If I have a gun, i ‘ll not answer that on any questionere. Medical records are being hacked, medical care is in the crapper, I know, I am a nurse and have had 2 incidents needing care, what I got was treatment that worsened my injury in one case, given unneeded and dangerous medication in another, hospitals and private practices are being bought by Corp., that ONLY CARE about the bottom line.$$$$$, This country is in a big mess, and we need

  6. Among the left there are too many who own guns and do not want to be without them, that probably help tip the scales away from hard core gun control. Just like there are dieters and natural food buffs running around with BIG MACS on their breath.

    • Yes, it is ironic that many liberals who condone welfare, and gay marriage, and increased govt. spending, and open borders, etc still realize that they need to be able to be armed for their own safety. They know that when seconds count the police are just minutes away.

    • I’m sure you are correct, but they must not be so silent about the matter. Even among my friends on the left who do own firearms, I seldom hear them go public about their beliefs.

      • They are liberals and have to be one of the cool kids, which many of us never were or cared less about, because we aleays knew who we were. It is similar to being Black, you can speak ill of Obama privately, but somehow manage to vote for him, race and liberalness trump rationality and truth.

    • have to say.. the big mac comment was awesome. i am that person once in a blue moon (when i fall from grace). problem is i was raised with cheese mac and meat loaf as my comfort foods. its hard to sell my soul… but it does have its price.

      • I try to use humor as opposed to nastiness to make a point but now and then when someone decides to be uncivil, Don Rickles lives inside my 6’1′ body and things can get ugly…atomic fire balls and bubble gum for me.

        • and who doesn’t love don rickles. thanks for the prompt… i’m going to find some youtubes of him in his prime. that guy tore me up. so from this moment forward, when i read your stuff… i’ll picture him. you just improved my attention span with you by 86% and reduced your credibility by 47%. good trade i’d say.

          • Just remember, all humor has its roots in reality, or it wouldn’t be funny. Of course there is Biden who has brought bafoonery up to an art form.

          • just finished 20 min of don clips… i was laughing hysterically. thanks for that.

          • Toddy Fields was also good, I loved her at The Frier’s Club when they did Joe Namath.

  7. I agree,Right on Russ,There are OVER 300 million guns in the united states,way less than 1000 of those guns have KILLED ANYONE.

    • The guns don’t kill anyone. The bad (insane criminals) guys do. It takes good guys with guns (cops or civilians) to stop bad guys with guns. In China bad guys with knives killed something like 24 people in a train station, because NO ONE there was allowed to have a gun.

      • GUNS DON’T KILL PEOPLE… SEVERE HEMORRHAGING DOES. a new bumper sticker.

        • The first part is correct, guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Guns are no different than a hammer, a tool. A severe hemorage can be caused by multiple means, cars, swords, knives, a fall, a ball bat, etc. Guns are easy to blame, but are NOT the problem.

          • i guess my answer would be than “guns and people just don’t mix”… like drinking and driving. so long as our nation is trapped within its adolescence (in terms of maturity)… maybe a tool that moves a few thousand feet a second and is designed to kill on impact isn’t quite the same as a screw driver. (my wife and her dentist come from another country where they like to celebrate christmas by firing guns into the air to make noise. While celebrating, his friend accidentally shot and killed him from 2 miles away. a freak accident to be sure… but no chainsaw could do that. guns are uniquely lethal. in that little ranching town down way south, they no longer shoot guns into the air.)

          • The incident you describe is utter stupidity, a bullet missed a few of us kids when I was ten and we dug it out of the sand, and handed it over to our parents, very scary.

            Now, what do you say to the people involved in the 150,000 to 250,000 documented incidents each year where guns are used to save lives, prevent rapes, and otherwise prevent serious crimes as DOCUMENTED BY NONE OTHER THAN THE FBI UNDER ERIC HOLDER. Something tells me chainsaws don’t do that, so its a specious argument. I go with the greater good and using a tool properly argument.

          • same tune: its a tool. in the right hands… very powerful. in the wrong hands, tragic. all we need to do with our laws is keep as many of them out of the wrong hands as is culturally, socially, feasible. for me… its that simple: nothing more, nothing less. that’s why if there are slippery slope folks out there… i am not one of them. its a tool… and, honestly, given that we are dropping the ball on keeping guns out of the wrong hands… i would be a LOT more comfortable if my kid’s elementary school had highly trained, super lovely armed guards (concealed from the kids so as not to be scared). but, in a more perfect world, we’d just regulate far more effectively so that bad guys wouldn’t have such easy access.

          • What you described goes on i schools everyday in Israel, the good looking part, not so much, besides,you and Rickles just want to visit the school more often.

            The real crux of the matter is that given the progressive agenda of disarming the law abiding public, the guns laws that have been passed from DAY ONE, starting with the 18 inch barrel on a shot gun are arbitrary and have rarely saved a life because they took guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens not criminals. The negative reaction gun control gets is because of what I have just described and the failures of all the laws to do much and the statistics that prove that the more you restrict the citizens the worst the criminality gets…Baltimoe, Chicago, LA……Most people would sign on IF the laws were not totally about gun, but were geared toward BAD GUYS AND PUNISHMENT OF VIOLENT CRIMES AND not Chicago stlye justice where the thugs are out on the street the next day or given a slapon the wrist while they slam a suburban guy for a ten shot mag vs a seven…nonsense.

  8. Wonder when they will ban cell phones seems how they kill people according to Obama take on guns // Just sayin

    • the moment the cell phone carries a clip of armor-piercing bullets. when it is designed to lethal (instead of just being misused and turning something safe lethal) it will be on the docket for regulation. crap, in my state, i can get a gun easier than i can get a cell phone now that you mention it.

  9. I have carried a weapon on my person every day since Aug. 1963.

    When they bury me they can do what they like with it.
    Taking it from me without my consent will be very expensive
    The liberal scum appear to be trying to start a civil war.
    They have a good start with their war on Christianity, try to disarm us will put the liberals in a place they will not enjoy.

  10. I publish occasionally just for reminding.
    the following is a partial list of the people that have agreed with the liberal garbage.

    Pol Pot, Fidel Castro, Idi Amin, Hugo Chavez, Benito Mussolini, Hirohito, Adolph Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Kim Il Sung, Josf Tito and Josef Stalin

    The above group are responsible for the deaths of roughly 220 million people mostly, their own citizens.

    They all said the same thing, universal registration for the safety of the public
    They all got it.
    Within 3 years they had all confiscated all weapons.
    With in a year of taking all weapons, they all passed laws making it illegal to say anything nasty about the government
    The next list is of “democracies” that have confiscated all weapons.
    Australia, Canada, England France, Germany, Portugal, Spain
    Would it surprise you to know that all of those countries now have allows against saying nasty things about the government
    Give yours up if you like, they will have to work to get mine.

    • there’s one thing those guys had that some wannabe despot in this nation will never have: the illicit support of the military. if some dictator guy tells our military to screw the people of this nation… they will turn around and shoot the bastard. that’s why i am more worried about little jimmy who is a sick fuck down the street loaded to the gills than will ever be of a despotic takeover in our own great nation from which i somehow have to defend myself with my sidearm. your got the relative risks topsy-turvey.

      • I’m exactly the opposite, paytheman. I know the “little jimmies” you mention will be targetting only “Gun-Free-Zones” for their fear of resistance, while despotic takeover is much more likely (as wesley 342 said) after all guns have been cleared away. [Yes, a despotic gov’t acts just like mass-murderer “little jimmy,” but with an entire nation of gun-free zones in which she/he can play]. Now if the “some wannabe despot” were to replace the senior military leaders with people loyal to him or her, instead of the Constitution, might it worry you more?

        • sure. but so hypotethetical. the little jimmy story feels like more probable: instead of a military coup in our nation, little jimmy just needs to have a bad break up with his girlfriend. but, honestly, if i didn’t have two young kids… innocent as the driven snow… raised to be modest and compassionate and respect all living things… i wouldn’t be so scared. its not for me that i am scared… but for them.

        • Replacing the senior leadership in the military…Isn’t that what this sandni99er is doing now???

        • not sure you are right about those lurking in the shadows li’l jimmies. many of them want to go out with a bang… they plan to die…

          the reason we are so afraid of terrorists is because they place their cause above their own life… they want to die for their cause. those li’l jimmies out there… aching to die… scare me too. what a sad state of affairs we humans are. we are not worthy to have inherited this lovely planet. someday, i predict, the bacteria will take it back from us.

      • Do not be so sure! Your thought process is good, BUT Obama has been slowly eliminating the Brass that would stand up to him, 300 plus of our highest level military officials have been run off and the ones left are the climbers willing to do anything for rank. My daughter was so discusted with the state of affairs she left several years ago. Look at former General Hayden, he thinks the intelligence community has thr right to look at everything and anything a citizen produces electronically, he has no respect for Privacy or the intellect of the civilian. Many of the Officer class are Elitests. How this might play out is uncertain, but there have been instances where the military has fired on civilians and hardly ever a case of not following orders….Patton, westmoreland and many other notable officers fired on the former miltary men demonstrating to get their pensions and most were unarmed!

        • maybe true… beyond my jurisdiction… but i still have some faith (as i bet you do) in the rank and file… who would never put up with following an unethical order to attack US citizens on our soil. that’s not to say it couldnt happen… but the chances are low as it involves so many people turning rogue. but, with a nut down the street, all it takes is one lone dark person who is already rogue to act. so, given the variable risks and probabilities… that explains my greater fear of the lone actor rather than the state. but, we should remain vigilant and wary no matter… and i say that as a peacenik.

          • I have faith in the military, but not in the Administrative Department folks, many of whom are weasels who are basically power hungry politicians who will stop at nothing to get ahead, how do you think Fast and Furious got to where it did, FFL’s were screaming about Straw Man sales to the ATF and were told to shut up and keep on going[hundreds of documented items].

      • I do NOT agree with that statement! Why is the black muslim terrorist still in the white house getting rid of our military and the muslim terorrist is trying to take all our guns just like Hitler did????

        • well… the most parsimonious explanation would be that he has kids, is less safe personally when the nation is armed, and considers this a public health issue. the explanation that requires us to make far more assumptions is that he’s trying to take over the world.

          • He is a muslim and anyone WHO DOSEN’T THINK SO IS A MORON! He wants to make America an Islamic country and himself the mullah in chief of America! He is drunk with power of being the fraud planted in our W.H. and I can’t wait to read his obituary!!!

          • I know he is not a Muslim… I know a lot of Muslims… And he ain’t no Muslim. Signed, the moron

      • I totally agree with you abut our military. However, remember obummer has replaced most or all of our Constitution loving commanders with his own personal butt boys. Our saving grace is the vast majority of our fighting men and women still believe in our Constitution and most will not follow illegal orders. And remember, yes all murder is bad, and all mass murder is horrible and gets most the press. But the facts are mass murder is still a small percentage of all those committed in this country.

        • message to responsible fire arm owners. look at this when you can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN6rjamk0Q0

          • A lot of causing problems where no problems exist. How many mass shootings have occurred with weapons purchased privately? None that I know of. Is it possible? Sure. But the problem so far is nonexistent, except of course with obummers Fast and Furious, where at least one US Border Patrolman was killed by one of these weapons which was allowed to walk across the border. Oh, and by the way, the States with the highest violent crime rates already have laws against private firearms sales, like KA., IL., and NY. How’s that gun control working out for those folks? And states with the lowest crime rate have the least amount of violent crime. Now which state would you rather live in when it comes to your personal safety? By the way in my state, you can walk into any firearms retailer, purchase the weapon, get an instant check and walk out with the firearm. I can also answer an ad, purchase a firearm and walk away. Usually the seller will ask for ID but not always. Some make a requirement up front you will need a CCW permit to make the purchase, but not always. Amazing, those sold firearms very, very rarely are used to commit murder, if ever.

          • You are not a safe gun owner. I had a collection of firearms, but due to a divorce I needed money. That said, I have sold firearms to private citizens, but they have to sign a form of my making, show drivers license and I also try to get social security number. Why I once sold a handgun and the gun turned up in the trunk of a car going to DC. And the ATF called me, and I had the name, address, social security number, which I gave to ATF, which helped to arrest this person who was trafficing guns. And this is what everyone needs to do. I had a carry permit, but I let it go cause I don’t have, I mean in my present situation I can’t afford a handgun. Oh well, I still have these records.

      • I hope what you say about the military is true, when I was in, we would not have turned on the citizens. But with the military loaded with Mexicans who want to get citizenship and gang members who are in to get training to pass on to their homies, well they wouldn’t turn on their own. But to the lighter skinned America I don’t know. Maybe enough middle American kids are in to hold the line. And sick fuck little Jimmy who acts black, maybe won’t have enough balls to cause to much trouble. You never know about people. I mean even mild mannered darky potus, didn’t seem like he was to much trouble But

        • wow… what a comment. seems like you’ve had some tough encounters with people who don’t look like you. i’ve had different experiences… and i still have to say that the diversity of this nation (including you and me) are what makes our potential so great. a forest is more resilient and adaptable the more diverse it is…same with nations. sure, its a challenge having to get along with people who don’t look or sound or act or eat or pray like us… but, in that diversity we find our greatest strength… if we are just easy-going enough to embrace it.

    • AMEN Wesley342. Let them come and get them (IF THEY CAN, I DON’T THINK THEY CAN )!!!

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  11. “Liberalism is poison.” 100% true!!!!

    • it hasn’t hurt me? in fact … its liberating… allows me to appreciate the world in all its colors and complexities and nuance. if its poison… its VERY slow acting.

  12. Who says we don’t want to stand up for gun rights even while the bodies in Oregon are still warm? Let’s look at a few of the facts that are coming out: 1) The “white supremacist shooter” turns out to be half white, half black – I wonder what branch of the Skin Heads he would be allowed to join? 2) The whole event was a Hate Crime against Christians (the bastard lined up his victims, interrogated them as to whether they were Christian or not, and then summarily shot the Christians. 3) Investigations of his Facebook page (or Twitter, or whatever it was, but “social media” nevertheless) showed a strong interest in Fundamental Islamic Terrorism (got that, Obongo?). 4) There was some connection between some terrorist operation in Europe that failed, and Roseburg, OR, where the most recent event happened. I’m sure more details will be coming out, but look for the Leftist media to suppress any information that makes Islamic shitheads look bad!

  13. Christopher Kirby

    The only way to stop gun violence is to counter it equally with guns. Eliminate gun free zones for one thing. Teachers and staff members in schools should have concealed pistol license that way they would have a fighting chance. You should have the rights to defend yourself from evil people. Cowardly criminals choose gun free zones because there is no one to stop them from their violent actions. Also there should be armed security at schools and they should have rifles and handguns for backup. In collages teachers, staff members, and students of legal age (21) should be able to carry concealed legally for obvious reasons. The presidents daughter has multiple armed guards at his daughters school so why shouldn’t our children be allotted the same benefits after all aren’t we all supposed to have the same equal opportunities. The only place that makes sense to be a gun free zone is a court house. Even hospitals should have heavily armed security guards and good legal people with CPLs. All this talk about gun control just makes more people go out and buy more guns and all these democratic liberals are stupid not to realize this. The only reason Obama wants to disarm us is so that only the government can have guns and he can impose his tyrannical agenda just like Hitler did. He is out to not only ruin America but file it as well. So all of these idiotic leftists need to open their eyes and see what’s going on. If they ever try to take away our Second Amendment Constitutional rights I will be fighting alongside my fellow American brothers and sisters to keep America free from tyranny.

  14. We are never going to legislate our way out of the killings. People need fixing and we do not seem to see that nor do we seem to be making any progress with it. We simply cannot legislate people fixes given the people fix we are in. There are ways to help the situation but they are buried and for now are simply not going to happen. There numbers of mass shootings are not that frequent. In fact, given that we have 300 million people in this country, I am surprised we do not have more such killings in any given year. We often have as many people killed in a single day in Chicago than we do mass shooting casualties in several years. That is a serious people problem. And that is where we can make some reductions. No, we cannot clean out the guns. Way too many illegal guns are in our major urban areas amidst the slums. Short of going door to door and seizing such weapons will never work and even then I doubt that a total cleanout is going to be effective.
    Therefore, we have to make a serious shift in many facets of our people in order to really reduce such a high killing rate. So let’s quit whining about it and get busy. Meanwhile, we have to arm ourselves against criminals of all kinds.

  15. Why Gun Freedom Always Wins, the headline read. It would be nice in that were actually the case.Unfortunately it isn’t, as evidenced by existing laws, for instance The Gun Control Act of 1968, The National Firearms Act of 1934, and the myriad of “regulations” and local laws/ordinances, all of which serve to trash the above mentioned Gun Freedom, which supposedly Always Wins.

  16. I’ve own a gun all of my life, I have never had my gun jump up and go out and KILL someone.

  17. KEEP YOUR GUNS, HANDY. It’s COMING. BE READY.

  18. All of you LEFTIST,LIBERTURD,SOCIALIST,DUMBOCRAP,PIGS ARE GOING TO LOSE.YOU DON’T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO TAKE ALL OF US SECOND AMENDMENT FREEDOM LOVERS ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    COME ON AND TRY IT,WE DARE YOU! YOU WILL LOSE AGAINST ALL OF US! YOU DON’T HAVE A
    COLD CHANCE IN HELL,ESPECIALLY YOU,BARACK OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Signed,The People of the Sovereign States of America.

  19. I find it a shame that the government has taken away the right to correct our children,and this is where the problem starts. The gov says we can not correct or make them listen. I carry and my brother who is mentally disabled hunts with the family, and he understands that hunting animals for food ,and keeping the family safe is what a gun is for he doesn’t have access to any guns unless he is with one of us. He was raised the old way and understands what is right and what is wrong. The way we raise our children these days is a whole lot of the problem, I corrected my child just as I had been when I was growing up and I got in more trouble than I could shake a stick at. So the gov needs to realize they have created this problem by taking a way the parents rights to raise there children and to be able bto correct them when they do wrong. So the problem isn’t guns and the gov is so we need to stand up for all our rights that we have left and make a stand for everything our founding fathers gave us before we have no rights left. This is a terrible tragedy, but the parents and the gov are to blame not guns or ammo. The gov needs to figure out what is a persons rights and what is there business and stay out of the family life, unless it is abuse to the child or in dangers the child. God bless our country.

  20. Work at Home~Follow this guide to make $97/hour…I just purchased themselves a McLaren F1 when I got my check for $19993 this past 4 weeks and just over 17 thousand lass month . this is really the nicest-work Ive had . I began this 10-months ago and straight away started making more than $97… p/h .learn the facts here now .
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  21. This article is TRUTH with a capital T. Liberal gun-haters are mentally deranged, like their Dear Leader, his minions, and his wannabe successors!

  22. Anyone who is against a gun for protection should not hold office!!! With all the migration in America under, he is not letting families , he is allowing all men of military age, which is VERY frightening, we need a wife and a husband both with a gun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  23. Guns are for killing the bastards who would try to take them away

  24. The one thing that people don’t understand about the Second Amendment is the fact (as Wesley 342 plainly points out) that it is the Amendment that secures the rest of them. It was never about sports or hunting, but as framed, it is about security from our government becoming a tyranny. I know that many feel that it already has, but what other government in the world would you prefer? This nation has its faults and they are numerous, but there is not any fault that doesn’t directly trace back to someone misinterpreting or reading into the Constitution and Bill of Rights something that isn’t there. This is why we vote and why we stand firmly on the Second Amendment.

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