Businesses Anger the Left By Giving Employees Year-End Bonuses

Democrats and their liberal cohorts in the media are putting on their best Grinch impersonations after learning that many of America’s biggest corporations are passing their tax bill savings on to the thousands of workers who make their companies tick.

Putting an immediate lie to the left-wing myth that this tax bill will only help the very wealthiest Americans, companies like AT&T, Sinclair, Comcast, Wells Fargo, and Fifth Third Bank are giving out bonuses and wage hikes that will have an immediate impact on the middle class. Thanks to a major cut in the corporate tax rate, American businesses suddenly have the kind of money they need to compete effectively with international corporations…and the left HATES what they see unfolding before their eyes.

In the New York Post, the editorial board pointed out some of the worst examples of left-wing rage:

So what was the Democrats’ reaction when corporations began passing on their anticipated added profits to workers?

Democratic (and former Hillary Clinton) strategist Jesse Ferguson called it an attempt to “curry favor” by “playing to the ego of the president.”

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi claimed the AT&T bonus had already been negotiated as part of a new union contract and was an attempt to “pin a rose on this tax bill” — only to learn that it was an extra $1,000 bonus on top of the earlier one.

Many other Dems and their media supporters labeled it a p.r. stunt. MSNBC’s Joy Reid, who’ll soon pocket an extra $1,000, called it “corporate America trying to convince you that their naked greed is charity.”

Let’s say that these corporations are guilty of exactly what the Democrats are accusing them of: Blatant public relations chicanery in an attempt to get Trump to tweet nice things about them and to get conservatives to believe in their companies. Yeah…so what? We say: That’s all part of the game.

In fact, this is exactly what we’d hoped to see when we first started getting excited about Donald Trump as a candidate. Remember, back when he was talking about bringing jobs back from Mexico and other countries? We knew there was only a slim chance that he could accomplish this through the kind of punishing tax schemes he was talking about on the campaign trail, but we also knew that – merely by drawing attention to these problems – he could herald a major shift. Companies WANT good publicity, and they’re willing to pay good money to get it. If that means bringing jobs back to this country to please a very popular and outspoken president – you’d damn well better believe they’ll do it. This has an echo effect throughout the entire corporate sector.

And, of course, it doesn’t hurt when you throw a nice big tax break on top of the tweeting!

If they don’t watch it, Democrats are going to find themselves running on a party platform that is AGAINST the American people making more money. They can try to win back the White House and Congress with that message, but we’re going to go ahead and bet on red.

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1,320 comments

  1. The story continues………….
    “Many other Dems and their media supporters labeled it a p.r. stunt. MSNBC’s Joy Reid, who’ll soon pocket an extra $1,000, called it “corporate America trying to convince you that their naked greed is charity.”

    Question: Hey Joy wil You and the Others from MSNBC be making a direct donation to CHARITY? Or, will you be part of the ‘naked greed’, because you think you deserve the extra Buck$!
    Just askin’ !

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    • The ONLY thing she DESERVES is
      1000 smacks in her ugly pos face!!

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    • Let’s not forget our “representatives” who received donations from Harvey Weinstein for their campaigns. How many ACTUALLY returned the cash?

      • They are like the Hollywood people that would move out of the US if Trump won , haven’t heard of one leaving yet .

        • How can these stooges complain because companies are giving their employees a bonus for a job well done? The audacity of those on the left amazes me. They are the same ones who complain that employees are not treated fairly enough. I hear the weather is warm in Mexico for those who want to leave our great country. BCW RVN 68-69

          • If you have ever been in Mexico that is NON tourist , the Demon Rats would not survive long .

          • Gee wouldnt it be awful, if after the hoopla about leaving, they were stuck in Mexico and wer stopped at the border and not allowed to cross back into the US? So sorry. My spell check didnt work. BW RVN 68-69

          • Because, if Trump’s tax Cut ‘worked’, to HELP, “working American people’, & the Corps, received a ‘tax-cut’, & did, ‘indeed’, pass the profit’s, ‘on to their employees’, & it SUCCEEDED- what would be the Prog/Commie, ‘leaders of the party of slave, “OVERSEER’S, say to COMBAT, extra money in ‘everyman’s pocket’?

          • Walmart is the latest to announce their plans. all eligible employees will get $1000 bonuses and Walmart is increasing pay for new hires from $10 per hour to $11 per hour. Bonuses and long term benefits. Who will jump on board next.

          • Have you been cherry picking your News? News about Wallmart closing down locations has been all over the News the past few days.

          • The Sams Clubs stores have been low margin for many years, and I expect they will move most of them if they choose into nearby walmart stores. You can try to downgrade the importance of the wage change and bonuses, but objective persons will view it in a positive light. Wal Mart stock is going up.

          • if Obama had done this, they would be singing his praises loud and publicly, just like they would if this really great economy had happened on his watch.

          • Well, they think he was easy on immigration despite the increase of deportations and decrease in undocumented immigration, and that he was sympathetic to Muslim terrorists despite ordering Bin-Laden dead?

          • I thought the original intention was to capture him alive. I guess you just have inside information that I have no access to. I do know that Trump gave full authority to every federal law enforcement office to do their job without any political interference. He even granted authority to our military leaders to use their own judgement in conducting military operations.

      • could I guess none and be close to correct/

    • What a way to put it. Atta boy rightvvote!

    • Raquel Salientes

      Hey Joy, can I contact the Wounded Warrior Project to expect $1000 from you soon?

    • What makes the Libs so angry is that they had it all planned to use that many for more of their impractical and never working programs, and they won’t even be able to get their share of it! After all that’s the reason that people are taxed, isn’t it? To Dem’s and Lib’s it is! In their minds all money is theirs and citizens should be grateful that they are allowed to keep some to spend on themselves! What will they do now??

    • They can call it whatever they choose. The fact is that millions of dollars are being given to employees and those employees will spend most of that money on goods and services. It is a win-win situation.

    • A publicity stunt makes sense because so many companies have already said the extra companies have already said they not putting the extra money towards their employees.
      https://youtu.be/_72fqgEevOo

      • Walmart employs 1 million plus persons nationwide and they announced their plans for all eligible personnel to get $1000 bonuses , plus they are increasing the lowest pay from $10 per hour to $11 per hour. The list is growing and getting better every day.

        • Wallmart is also closing a bunch of stores.

          • There is some truth in your comment. They are not however closing any wal mart stores. The closings are Sams club stores and the number is estimated at 63 nationwide. That does not lessen the importance of their wage increase, nor diminish the impact on the $1000 bonuses. The number of employees affected will number in the single digit thousands and those affected will likely get first chance at openings at wal mart stores.

          • A lot of those jobs are going to just be gone.

          • The current jobs for those laid off are gone, but we have two huge companies. Wal Mart has more than one million jobs and ATT has more than 250,000. Depending on where the openings are and the training of those laid off, we will know when they are actually laid off. It could have been K-mart or Sears laying off. Those would have no where to go. These personnel do.

      • As more and more companies climb on board with using tax savings to grow the company or to reward employees, others will feel the pressure and jump on the train. PR is important to every corporation and this helps the economy and provides a certain amount of positive press for the company.

        • People will stop looking ‘proof’ that tax cuts work then the bonuses will stop.

          • That is on possibility. It is also very negative. kind of like that is what you want to happen so that it will fail. I look at things as an optimist and tend to believe the bonuses may become a habit and as the companies save money, the employees will benefit.

          • By who benefits when the debt goes up, growth slows, and those same companies down size?

          • To even think downsizing is so very negative.. Growth has not slowed at all under Trump. We are above 3% GDP and every economic indicator is strong. Spending during the Christmas season rose by $33 billion dollars. The tax cuts temporarily, i hope did add to the annual deficit, but as the economy grows. the size of that deficit will shrink.

          • Nor has the national debt – currently hurtling to $21 trillion. Imports still outgrowing exports, tax cuts to put another $1.5 trillion on debt – whoop! Big gamble but stuff the people!

          • Isn’t down sizing when they fire people?

          • People do get laid off. Downsizing occurs when the company is not profitable, so they reduce employees and expenses to stay in business. It hurts the laid off employees, but at least they stay in business and might come back.

          • The debt will increase at least in the beginning. Growth has not slowed and every single one of those companies are on solid financial footing and their sales are strong.

          • It is impossible to guess what the reaction will be to the possibility of bonuses ending. I believe they will continue, but nothing in life is guaranteed. I do know that most taxpayers will take home more money and that money will likely be spent. that is good for our country and our economy.

          • Well the bonuses are one time things, so you may find out soon?

          • They may be. That is a Decision that belongs only to the Corporation or business. I think in an optimistic manner and believe they will continue. So far, I have not heard of any employees that are not accepting the bonuses, which will be spent and will further stimulate our economy.

          • The DOW has been having a bad week.

          • I do admit that the DOW dropped substantially Monday and Tuesday but rose some 72 points yesterday and another 30+ points today. It ended the month about 1200 points higher than it started on January 2. I look at the DOW long term and we did see the 13th month of a nice increase at the end compared to the beginning of the month. I think that is pretty solid performance. I am optimistic that when February ends, that the Dow will be above where it started today.

          • Whether the bonuses continue or not will be up to the corporations and business owners. Neither you nor I have any control over that. I take the optimistic view that they will continue if after tax profits grow.

          • I still say it’s publicly. Businesses just happen to be doing good and are giving credit to politicians to give cooperate tax cuts a good name.

          • Businesses will save income tax. I do not think the pay raises or bonuses are for publicity, but if they are they still help our economy. The impact on growth is the same no matter why they are doing it. I say they are sharing with their employees. You apparently do not think that way.

      • Name ten major corporations that said the money will not be reinvested or spent in some way to grow the economy. A stronger economy means more profits for every corporation.

        • A bunch of them said so to Steve Mnuchin?

          • Some will probably not share with employees. Around 100 already have. That is a nice start and will put pressure on the others to compete for employees.

          • I DO recall a lack of hands going up. Have some of those who did not raise their hands changed their minds. I do not know who failed to raise hands. I do know that 100 companies are doing the right thing and think more will follow. We are in first month after tax cut.

  2. Democrats dissolving into hair pulling, hand wringing, pearl clutching hysterics and making their patented doomsday predictions? Trump must have improved our country again.

    • The Donald is improving America every day. Maybe the world too because several other nations are following his lead and moving their embassies to Jerusalem. Liberals worship the political concept of EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF MISERY via communism. They go ballistic whenever a free enterprise worker is rewarded with extra. Thank you Mr. President for turning the nation around to Americana. That African-born foreign student illegal pResident tried and failed to demolish the greatest nation on earth. We should not be affording that traitor a penny in pension benefit or Secret Service protection. As an illegal resident of the White House he is not entitled to pension and SS protection.

  3. They do it while they can. And probably take it off their income tax.

    • So what? At least, they’re giving money to the employees, recognizing them for their contributions to the success of the business. They could have done it before under OWEbama – but, did they? NOPE. Now, that there is a lower corporate tax they can and should recognize their employees, but they don’t have to – yet, they are. #MAGA #TRUMP2020

      • These are people making great big money. Look what the people get that made them rich. Then everyone puts the prices way, way, up not to buy much, or even live in a lot of cases.

        • Freund you are posting about the situations in socialist/communist countries. Do you have a thought checker on your computer that’s working in reverse? Looks like it to me.

        • Oh, dear, Jim, maybe you should go out, stat your own business, work very hard and long hours, do without even a salary to make your business thrive so when it does, and you do make profit, you can hire loyal employees give them fair wages, bonuses, health plans, vacations, sick days, holidays, and when the government says your capital gains tax/income tax shall drop from 39% to 21% give your employees a bonus and raise so you can listen to the likes of you complain because the business owner makes more. WOW!!! Green-eyed monster owns you, Jim, lock, stock and barrel. I feel so sorry for people like you who are so jealous of success. Get off your computer and start your own business! Stop being a lazy, selfish, nasty leach!!!

          • All i ever got is ripped off in life with anything. It is too late for me to even try anymore. As i am soon going to be 82. Companies made in the millions in the black when i was making $9.72 an hour with all benefits to boot. Look what society has done since the 70’s. I lived it, and know how things worked out for the rich !

          • Jim, am so sad you feel so sorry for yourself and are so bitter. Your glass is half full, not half empty
            I am two years behind you. You are blessed to reach 81-many don’t. Envying others for what they have earned is not good for you. You could have started your own business but chose to work for $9.72/hr. So sad you feel you were victimized. You made your choices, just as I.
            I bounced around in various careers till I chose education and enjoyed a wonderful career for almost 30 years working with children who thrived with my help. So rewarding, just not financially in FL. To this day, I meet former students who come up to me, hug me sharing how their lives have progressed and the journeys along life’s path they’ve taken. I may not have much money, but “my children” are blessed and productive, patriotic citizens.
            Don’t look back with jealousy, Jim. The few years we have left should be enjoyed as best we can with the health or lack of as we journey on. The sun rises to bring us another glorious day blessed by God; we greet Him gratefully each morning and when the sun sets, we thank Him for another blessed day, despite the illnesses, aches, pains, whatever and we make do in joy for just being here in our beloved America with a fabulous President leading us back to greatness. My prayers are with you, Jim, for a blessed New Year. We look forward in hope, just as we look forward to the sunrise each day.

          • $9.72 an hour was a good average in those days of the 70;s, with a nice 3 bedroom home for $38,000. And a new car for $8.000 basic. Take a look what the average factory worker makes now with hardly any benefits to look forward too. And then, have to pay big money for some kind of insuarance out of this kind of pay. How far do you think the $4. i get clear out of that raise we got out of Social Security will go ? Part B took all the rest. This is our future !

          • Jim, so what! In the 70’s I earned $3.25/hr. part-time and was happy I had that – a mother with two children in FL so I wouldn’t work full time – only when the children were in school. My husband worked, too, and we barely made ends meet. No health insurance because we couldn’t afford it. Our son needed surgery and we paid the hospital bill off a little bit per month till it was all paid. Paid it we did! So, we got a $4 increases in SS and it was eaten up by prescriptions or Part B. At least, we have Medicare. Stop being so jealous of everyone else. Be happy with what you do have, Jim. Your eyes are terribly green. I still say, if you had thought ahead, you could have made different decisions. Instead, you were content with your $9.72/hr. Now, you are living with I should have…well, you didn’t. So live with it and stop eating yourself up over bad decisions you made. No one held a gun to your head telling you you had to work for that amount of money and not start your own business, been an entrepreneur. You made that decision. No one else, not he wealthy, not the poor, YOU did. So live with it and stop griping. According to Anthony Centore in Forgiving Yourself, “Forgiving yourself is tough. It means striking a deal with yourself …
            *to let the past be past and live in the present
            *to stop beating yourself up about something that happened two or five or ten years ago
            *to banish guilt and shame from controlling your thoughts and behaviors
            *to accept and respect yourself as you are…in spite of your screw-ups
            Counselors and life coaches tell us that “to forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you.”[3] Have a blessed New Year, Jim. Move forward and stop being mired in the past via your green eyes.

      • Thanks Gal.

    • Your proctologist called! They found you head!

    • It’s a business cost. Lowers net pre-tax profit. You’re not taxed on profit you don’t have.

      • Francisco he’s another socialist. They will never understand free enterprise. They prefer the banana republic system. They all need to immigrate to Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea or to China where a dictator tells them how much toilet paper they can use daily.

  4. Dems already DO believe that Americans are making too much money. I used to receive a Christmas bonus — $8 a year for every year I worked at my employer. $1000 would have been awesome.

    • I worked for the school board in education – NEVER received a bonus.

      • I wish I could remember who said it, early in the Obama administration a member said “The problem isn’t that there isn’t enough money. The problem is that the private sector has it and we don’t.” When it was pointed out to Obama that raising the capital gains tax would reduce government revenue because it would slow trading, he conceded the point but said it was an issue of “fairness.” Progressive ideology bulldozes rational economic thought.

        • Hussein Obama appears to have had around a foreigner high school grade level education with the mental capacity of a street hawker–which he was.

        • Absolutely. Progressivism kills any thinking ability – if it had been there to begin. None of OWEbama’s admin including him were business-oriented – 92% were eggheads with no experience, just hypothesis and theories and I’ll wager they never even balanced their own checkbooks, let alone a home budget and obviously not business/corporate ledger/balance sheets.

      • I have a PhD in nuclear engineering (UW, ’96) and worked for the Department of Energy (DOE) weapons complex for almost 30 years (Hanford, Nevada Test Site, and Los Alamos). I had a Top Secret “Q” clearance for 20 of those years. I’ve published technical journal articles in Nuclear Science and Engineering three times (twice as sole author). But, I never went into management (I love the technical engineering work). How many bonuses of any kind do you think I received in my entire career? Ans: 0. Government employees who are actually contractors don’t get bonuses. DOE employees only serve as technical and management oversight at DOE sites. “Contractors” do the actual work, so that made me a “contractor.”

        • I worked for the Dept. of Mental Health in my very liberal state and never received a bonus, although there were several years without pay raises and even more with raises below the cost of living/inflation level. Liberals talk about spreading the wealth, but in the end it is just a lure to snag in unsuspecting voters.

          • if they gave bonuses you would complain government workers are paid too much or that bonuses are wasteful spending-you can’t have it both ways

          • You have no idea what my work was like, and you have no idea on what I would say, swami.

          • i have the right to “have a pretty good idea”

          • You have the right to think whatever you wish. I would bet that concerning me. if I haven’t already spelled it out, you would not have all the answer. But have it or not it doesn’t affect me in the least.

          • Ahhhh, they pay clients to go? Answers a great deal.

        • Kevin, you’re making my point with many more words.

      • Public servants aren’t supposed to.

        • Maybe we should tell that to the VA….where bonuses have been paid repeatedly to totally inept, unlawful, useless employees at the top.

    • Are Democrats the one advocating for higher wages? Get you whining straight!

      • I am NOT “whining” about anything. Dems are a bunch of two-faced liars. They talk about higher wages on one side of their forked tongues, then bitch about lower taxes on the other side of their forked tongues.

        I was simply stating a fact from my own experience. Like how my California State Income Taxes QUADRUPLED in the first four of Governor Moonbeam’s first term. That’s another little “factoid” for your limited brain capacity.

        • Doesn’t California have a great economy?

          • California is hundreds of billions of dollars in the hole.

          • Wikipedia? Really? You must be a millennial because you have no clue about research.

          • Computer guppies are like Media guppies and do not life in reality .

          • It is in their education, and the role their parents took. I spent time teaching my kids to think for themselves, and emphasized to not believe everything they are told.

          • I paid to send my kids to private school for that reason and taught them how to use their hands as well as thinking .

          • safari1024-so what do you do when they say they don’t believe you?

          • My kids know me, and never say they don’t believe me because I never lie to them. Period.

          • safari1024-how would you research this issue?

          • I already have researched the issue, and it didn’t involve Wikipedia which is only good for a light, surface type knowledge on any issue. We have spoken before, so I know how you research. To your credit, you source multiple materials, but to your detriment, they tend to always be from the more left leaning type outlets. I attempt to find as wide a spectrum of sources as possible, and then attempt to find where the truth lies. There are usually only kernels in most sources, so corroboration of many similar narratives usually points to the most truthful outcome. Was this helpful?

          • well then please show the source you chose that supports your “factual” comment and all is good-if you don’t ,then you are just giving a “light” answer.

          • I’m glad that you have set yourself up as protector of truth, and Will Higgins’ benefactor. As I said, through poring through multiple sources, multiple answers are found. Some estimates show California’s unfunded liabilities to be over nine hundred billion. Perhaps that is high. Many estimates show the debt to be in the two hundred fifty to four hundred billion range. I would imagine by the preponderance of the reporting that this is the proper range. There is not an absolute correct number as it changes instant by instant. As for sources, they are as available to you as they are to me. I am not going to do your work or your thinking for you. Do what you wish, think as you wish, it makes no difference to me.

          • same here-don’t care either way as the USA is 19 trillion in debt(actually close to 21 with the trump tax cut and it is changing every second) my query is what are your sources -which ones do you rely on for getting to the truth?
            My approach is to google the comment I want to check out and read links from the spectrum of far left to right and use the most fact based info to make a decision-Inherently , no one simply knows the truth(some may say God does) I don’t have a personal line to him. If you would like I can make a list of sources I check out-I skip many that I know are bogus- So, I would appreciate if you could send me a half dozen sources you use-

            Thanks

            Happy New Year

          • My approach is similar. I do not have many sites that I absolutely trust. It is more of a function of eliminating the ones that I completely distrust. I will also reword my query several times if I don;t find adequate info based on my original question. Sometimes that works wonders. I also don’t content myself with page one, or even page two of the google responses. I do like the Wall Street Journal, sometimes the BBC has an interesting twist on things, but I take their bias into account. I know you won’t like this one, but I generally like the news wing of Fox News. While they do have a somewhat right way leaning, it is definitely less than before. Also, a source that is despised by the far left and hated by the far right can’t be sidling up to either. There are many other sites I visit but much depends on the subject, and the situation.

            Happy New Year to you.

          • Will, still a single source, but better than Wiki. Try mixing it up with the Wall St. Journal, which is widely read among business execs. I know you are not going to want to hear it, but Fox Business is also a good source. Your Forbes source didn’t have anything easily seen on state debt, but it did list California as the thirty first best state to do business. That is not nearly as good as it should be. With an economy that large, they should be competing for top five every year.

          • I’m not saying there haven’t been some ups and downs, but their still doing good.

          • Like I said, with all that CA has going for it, they should be doing far better than they are. With better leadership they would be a driving force. They have natural resources, farming, fishing, tourism, Hollywood, and the Silicon Valley to name a few of their assets. Overspending, mismanagement, and questionable programs have plagued California for years.

          • Can you explain you claims in better detail?

          • Will, I wrote you a post earlier describing how to broaden your view and knowledge. It’s not going to be done on a comment section of a political piece. I saw you comment here that you base your information on who has the best source. That isn’t always the same source, and it isn’t going to give you a rounded understanding on any issue. If I was at a table sitting face to face with you, it would take hours to discuss the story of how California has come to be where it is today. I know much of the story, and could answer many questions, but we would have to research and sift through lots of information to fill in the gaps. I have learned what I know through living there, through relatives, through studying history, through being a political junkie since the “70’s”, through research, and through not allowing my mind to be swayed or controlled by either party’s propaganda. In short, a person with a logical mind and a half decent knowledge of California’s policies and agendas would not need to ask your question.

          • It still sounds like you just complaining about the governor?

          • I never mentioned the governor in that post. It seems you are content in your ignorance so, so be it. I leave you to your fate of continuously posting illogical, soundbite laden, partisan drivel. It is said that a mind is a terrible thing to waste, so I leave you to ponder that.

          • Sorry, I forgot which thread this was. You criticism is still a bit unfounded.

          • No, Calif. and “Loopy” Jerry Brown are bankrupt by $458 billion in debt! And they will never raise enough revenue to pay it down…….3000 businesses have left in the past decade…….

          • They could pay it down if they choose to, but it would require a thorough cleaning up of their state house(Conservative legislators and Governor elected) and gasp, austerity measures. It would also require more incentives for business and less crazy over the top environmental measures. So sadly, in reality, it will probably never happen.

          • how many times do we need to tell you we don’t have those comic books where you get your quotes from

          • very high state and local tax. They spend a lot of money and have had problems balancing budgets in some cities.

          • Wiki. is only as good as the info put in . It can be fake like our media .

          • For the most part i agree with the data. Underemployment is a major problem and cost of living is high I saw nothing about average wage per worker. They did show a GDP per person of more than $56,000 . I took their figure of GDP and divided by workforce and got $121 per person. Cost of living in California is very high and to live there, you need a high income. I lived there and had a high income so I know first hand.

          • I didn’t say it was perfect.

          • Shut down the Import Harbors and see how far down the tubes you will slide .What is tour Sales tax and all the other taxes ??? Ca. is so great that they are broke like the federal Gov,

          • They are not broke!

          • then why is calf. asking trump for money to help fight the fires? put the mexicans to work to help with the fires the muslims will enjoy watching them finally doing something

          • Because natural disaster transcend politics.

          • does that include dirty politics? Calf. is loaded with them

          • Yes, Trump was at his best during the hurricane relief in Texas and Florida (fell short in Puerto Rican though), he should want to help.

          • trump can’t do it all ,the people in puerto rico need to learn to help themselves instead of waiting for some one to wipe their noses

          • The whole island lost power, and they are American citizens.

          • and they can’t do anything but gripe that they aren’t getting enough help. the people in texas and florida are trying to do what they can by not sitting on their butts and getting back to reality

          • Texas and Florida got aid.

          • so did p.r.

          • Not as much, but got more damage.

          • that’s what they get when they don’t take care of anything

          • They got it by a guy hundred year hurricane. They are recovering, but it could be going faster.

          • Sorry, typing error. Don’t know where that came from?

          • so did p.r.

          • Correction: It has one of the BIGGEST economies in the world. Whether or not it is a “good” economy was something I never mentioned.

            Jerry Brown, on his 4th and (hopefully) final term as governor has probably done more to harm the economy than any governor in the history of the state.

            I left there in 1978 at the age of 24, went back briefly in 1979, enlisted in the Air Force and never looked back. Haven’t been back except to visit and the last one was in 2004.

            You couldn’t PAY me to live there.

          • Well it’s dencly populated, so people clearly like it there.

          • And THEY can HAVE it!!

          • yea with illegals from mexico and the rest muslims

          • that would be a good place for you which one are you a fruit or a nut?

      • See my comment to Kevin above. The Democrats may verbally advocate, but when it comes to action they are nonexistent.

      • Higher wages should be the decision of the company , not the government. Raising minimum wage can cause jobs to be eliminated. a company must make a profit or go out of business.

      • Higher wages bring higher prices . Give Mac workers $15.00 and a burger with small fries and small drink goes to $10.00 you will cry like a little baby .

    • But Democrats want table-wipers, floor sweepers and food baggers to make $15.00 an hour and customers to pay $8 for a hamburger with an EBT card then ride off in a $50,000 luxury car. Maybe I should apply for an EBT card so I can afford a Cadillac, Lincoln, Luxus or Hummer II.

      • I used to live 6 miles from the Hummer plant in Indiana. I thought they quit making them???

        • I have no idea about the current status of the Hummer plant or vehicles except that I see a lot of them on roadways and in parking lots. Some EBT holders seem to like riding around in them.

          • I looked it up after I made that comment. The Indiana plant closed and the Hummer 3 and 3T are now being manufactured in Shreveport, LA. So is the Chevy Canyon and GMC Colorado, which will be my next vehicle.

            I have seen the same thing and it makes me sick.

          • I used to have a 1998 Sonoma extended cab and loved it. The Colorado replaced it.

  5. And anyone expected any less than the Dems using their own “give away free” tactics to suddenly become the Party that wants to keep American in the bread lines. Go figure!

    • I think the homeless would like a bread line by now. It was Reagan that screwed things up for most of the population with all those cuts. Now we even have to pay big money just to have insurance in factories, along with all those cuts in pay, vacations, pensions, and very high prices for homes,cars, food, bills, repairs, also a lot of other things. Not even counting those very high prices if needing any medical attention.

      • I think they better get a new calculator.

        • So, do the math since before Reagan !

          • Your comments about Reagan are way off the mark. Before he took office inflation was in the double digits, a job opportunity was rarer than an intelligent leftist, and we had become the whipping boy of the world. With Reagan’ election we saw that all change for the better in a very short time. The difference, Reagan led, Carter waffled.

          • No, the recession of 73-75 had left the economy in dire straits. Oil crisis, steel crisis, stock market crash and then a further crash in 1980. Blame who you like, but President not in charge of economy and no power over it.
            Everything thereafter was up so Reagan reaped credit, if Carter had one he would have. Duh! You win some, you lose some.

      • Ever think about moving to Venezuela, Jim, where they have that super socialistic government in power? It’s a Banana Republic now and ain’t nobody has nuthin’ except the guy at top calling the shots. The rate of inflation is double digit. Bread lines are flourishing…

    • Republicans are the party of the rich, because they sure aren’t the party of the employees AT&T just laid off.

      • Wow Will, do you think saying the same thing five times in the same comment section actually makes it a salient point. Go troll somewhere else. Why not try the Huffington Post.

        • What said is true, go look it up.

          • I didn’t say you lied. I said you are repetitive and have very limited understanding on how the economy and things in general operate.

          • Do you understand that the bonuses AT&T are giving out are not enough to say the tax plain a success?

          • Others are doing the same. Tax payers can look at their pay check in February and quickly see how the take home pay compares to their take home now. when all is said and down, this tax cut will be a huge success. Even Manchin, a Democrat admitted a few days ago that those who live in his home state will benefit. He voted against.

          • Didn’t also the benefits are going to be short lived?

          • They expire in 8 years. We will know long before that whether they work or not. In fact, individual tax payers will judge just that in just a few month. Now job creation will take a little more than a couple of months.

          • I was just contextualizing what he said.

          • Everyone who can read knows that there is an expiration date for the individual tax cuts. that allows time to determine how successful it is. I think it will be successful, but the taxpayers will each judge how it affects them and will see whether jobs are created or investment happens.

          • some of the lucky ones may get up to 28 dollar a week-

            Think about all that can buy-

          • Even at you negative point, that is about $1500 annualized. Some could get as much as $4000. The child tax credit doubles, so logically those with more children will get more.

          • That is quite possibly the dumbest comment or question anyone has presented to me in quite a while. If you were in the same room you would have earned a withering stare, and a sad shake of the head. If this is the depth of your understanding then I am the stupid one for wasting my precious time on so shallow a thinker.

          • safari1024 I sadly say to you that you are wasting your time posting replies to Higgins. His mind is made up. Don’ confuse him with facts. “A mind convinced against its will is of the same opinion still.” Use your computer time on more useful endeavors. God Bless you and yours and have a wonderful 2018.

          • I addressed this in a post I just sent to you. But just wanted to say, God Bless you and your loved ones and have a Happy and Healthy New Year.

          • Yes friend I did read and replied to the other post. Thank you for your kind words. May God Bless our wonderful Nation. He made it possible.

          • What did I say that was so stupid?

          • Sorry Will. I try and be patient, but I am not perfect. I do not like to come across as insulting. I would suggest that you ascertain where your strengths lie, and focus on those areas. If you want to improve yourself, take every opportunity to learn. Not only from the “liberal” perspective, but from all angles, even the one’s that don’t seem to make sense. This is the only way to truly understand an issue down to it’s core. Last but most important, never stoop to the level of only parroting anyone’s talking points. Thoroughly think something through and examine from all angles before advocating and endorsing. God bless and Happy New Year

          • The facts that I read this article is kinda proof is listen to other prospectives.

          • what didn’t you say that wasn’t stupid?

          • What’s that got to do with anything? Non relevant to the new taxing structure.

          • It’s what the whole article is about!

          • at&t dosen’t have to give any bonuses out but they are

          • It!’s called publicity stunt.

          • Those tend to be hollow jesters in the grand scheme.

          • safari Higgins is a socialist. It matters not what an economist tells him he’s against free enterprise (Capitalism) from the start. Socialists (liberals) are all alike. They want the government to be all powerful, stamp out religion and dictate even how much toilet paper each can use daily.
            The government is to be worshiped. The individual is of no consequence.

          • Actually, Will Higgins is one of the useful idiots. I had forsworn wasting time on him in the past, but a bit of holiday cheer must have smacked me upside of the head. I usually don’t waste too much time when I realize someone has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

          • Thanks safari. I’m with you all the way here.
            Liberals don’t make positive contributions. They ARGUE AGAINST. They hunt for picky little things then parade them out front like Thanksgiving Day giant balloons.

          • So that’s where the hot air comes from for the Macy ‘s Day Parade.

          • Now you’ve got it safari. Liberals are like Puritans. They are scared to death that somebody, somewhere is having fun enjoying life.

          • Will Higgins, what you are posting is only part of the truth and mixed with misinformation. The layoffs are in areas that are no longer viable in the industry.. and are caused by increased cell phone use.. so if you would like to help these people keep their jobs… throw away your cell phone and stop updating your computer systems.

          • that’s like saying if you want to help all poor give to charity-

          • The layoffs include Direct TV installers, and technicians.

          • these are becoming legacy services

          • What is a ‘legacy service’?

          • jobs that are not required any more do to progress

          • I all ready told you

          • maybe he dosen’t have that comic book to look it up

      • Those employees were management . ATT did this as part of restructuring. Sometimes if something is not profitable it is eliminated . These jobs were no longer needed.

        • Technicians and cable installers?

        • And that procedure is what Donald Trump needs to do with the entire federal government. Libs have concocted a lot of useless “positions” for the purpose of creating jobs. It is not a Constitutional duty of the US Government to create jobs. The free enterprise private sector opens jobs as demands require. You Democrat liberals need to take your socialist/communist desires outside the USA.

          • There are way too many government employees who do little more than just draw a huge pay check. Melania has hired fewer than ten support staff as compared to more than 20 under Michele Obama. Less than half as many and she seems to be doing fine.

          • I read somewhere that “W”‘s wife Laura had only two assistants. Mochelle Obama had 22.
            I’m a retired federal employee. It’s unbelievable the number of “office workers” on payroll where I worked. Dozens of women arrive at work daily with the latest hairstyles, clothing, fingernails, face makeup, etc. Call their office and you get a recording saying they are either on the other line or out of their office. Go to their work area and they’re all sitting across the hall running their mouths off in gab sessions. I had an official appointment with one and as I arrived on time there was a crowd of her family dropping in to visit her. She asked me if I could come back later. GIVE ME A BREAK! The Donald needs to cull out a lot of useless leftovers from the previous eight years of waste.

          • The 22 figure could be correct. I had heard or read that it was as high as 24. Laura had more than 2 and I think at her highest had around 20. Melania has around 8.

          • I read Laura Bush had two. Moochelle had 22.
            Why so many other than to create jobs for friends at taxpayers’ expense? Barack and Moochelle were obviously never trained in fiscal responsibility. But what can we expect from welfare supporters.

          • I just did a quick recheck and different sources have varying numbers for Laura. This one had her at 15. some others have her and Michele very close with Laura as high as 20. The number for Michele equals prior research at 24. Melania than has 2/3 less staff and seems to get the job done.

          • We cannot believe what we read. Thanks for your update.

          • I really would like to know what each of those 24 employees of first lady did. They burned up more than $1 million in salary is about all i can see.

          • I can tell you what they did. Essentially NOTHING but receive a nice paycheck every two weeks.

          • Add to that the fact that it is nearly impossible to fire a poor worker and we just see more and more government bloat.

          • And that, Frank, has to be stopped. The federal agency I retired from has a load of those “bloaters” who came to work every day to participate in the fashion show to show off the latest in facial makeup, hairpieces, fingernails and clothing.

  6. Ya gotta love it! Run-of-the-mill liberal progressives whine like 4-year olds. College snowflakes shrink and hide in their safe spaces, usually Mommy’s basement. The liberal unemployed draw food stamps, walk around with EBT cards, and don’t bother looking for work because they don’t have to. They were all part of the Obama network of those deserving special treatment and protection from those nasty rich people, many who come from the corporate world. Toss in the LGBT(Q) group and the ‘Occupation Wall Street’ nincompoops and you rack up almost 50 percent of the population. And they all hate corporations for one thing or another. Then, SHAZAM!, the corporate world does something special for their employees and these pathetic groups still spit on them for their efforts. Screw them…

    • How much did the hard workers get ?

      • Still working on the class angle, eh, Jim? If one or two of these big corporations decided to raise the minimum wage of their employees to $15/hour, would you still whine?

    • I wouldn’t laying off a bunch of employees ‘something special’?
      But have fun with for fantasy that only lazy liberals stereotypes hate Trump.

      • And you hate the Trumpster because…? Inquiring minds would like to know.

        • He probably does not know other than that Hillary or Sanders did not win .

          • Yeah, ain’t it sad. At least with Trump we have a chance to begin draining the swamp. Without him, it’s nil.

        • Because if any politician was acting like Trump they would be universally hated.

          • politicans are hated automaticly trump isn’t one of those and we have a better chance with him to get america back to being great again

          • America never stopped being great! Stop acting like Democrats are actively trying to destroy America!

          • obambie tried to drag us down and he failed and he was a dirty democrap

          • It’s not about acting, it’s about performance. Obama was smooth, but got nothing done because of his goofy “Leading from behind” strategy in dealing with crucial problems like ISIS and Al-qaeda. The Trumpster crushed ISIS in 10 months, Obama talked and talked and talked and did nothing but draw red lines in the sand, then failed to follow through. The world recognized him as an impotent buffoon, which he was. He spoke softly and carried no stick at all.

          • Isis was falling well before Trump took office.
            See, if any politician was taking credit for thing happening before they took office, their would be more people calling them out. Why is Trump so special?

          • That’s simple, Will. It’s because he’s doing what he said he’d do. Wake up!

          • Which is what exactly

    • So when those EBT card holders ride up to the gasoline pumps let them PAY CASH per gallon TO INCLUDE THE TAX BREAK given to the nation. Liberals don’t want to drop the tax so let the liberals keep paying.

      • Yes, nobody gets a free ride. Everybody’s gotta have some skin in the game. We’re all in this together. That’s my take, marshmil1789.

        • Require those who are against the new tax breaks to pay the taxes as if the new rules were not in place. Then the rest of us can be given the excess paid in by the ones who opted for high taxes.

  7. You’re right. These morons don’t understand “the velocity of money” and the economic principles thereof. T is called “prosperity” and occurs in a good economy.

  8. How come liberals always whine about the good things??? Then praise each other about their wacky views of America??? Continue to preach lies and hate about our President, but ignore the corruption of the Clinton’s and Obozo administrations??? There exposed hypocrisy should be recognized for the hog wash it is! What a pathetic bunch of loonies!

    • Because this bill is not that good, AT&T is laying off a bunch of employees, do you think a one time bonuses is going to fix that?

      • Perhaps the bill could have been better if the Republicans did not have to do it all themselves. The Democrats refused to cooperate as they have on almost everything since Trump was elected. This is what I mean when I tell you that you have no concept of how things operate, but the leftists do find you useful.

        • Thanks safari1024. Liberals prefer equal distribution of misery and “blue sky” hopes of a seat in the politburo/presidium where they dictate the lives of others hundreds or thousands of miles away with whom they can never relate. They fail to accept the lesson of history about communism NOT working–except at the barrel of a loaded gun.

          • I’m not sure that the leaders fail to accept the lessons. I am afraid that some learned the lessons all too well and want that kind of power, wealth, and control for themselves. They will make sure the masses get good baked goods from the bread lines.

          • Thanks. Well said.

          • Well WE (as in the People) could round up ALL of these Progressive Liberals and ship them one-way to Venezuela to enjoy the failures of socialism.

          • Allen it might be worth the cost for the government to pay one-way fare to get ride of their filthy mooching carcasses.

        • Do you know that Republicans acted the same way with Obama eight years ago, only Trump’s ideas are worse.

          • Other than the ACA and bills full of pork ,what did they do ???? Did you forget the SC ruled the ACA a Tax ????

          • You had to spoil the day with Pictures of the Botox Queen ???

          • They set up excuses to cut Medicare and Social Security, and they’re going to blow up the debt.

          • Just like Obama DOUBLED the debt while he was enshrined (or at least thought he was).

          • He raised the debt less then all the past three Republican Presidents.

          • News flash , that was obama. SS recipients just got the biggest cola in years! Starts January 2018.

          • It’s been speculated that Republican would use the extra debt as a excuse to cut Social Security.

          • Quite the opposite Will, Social Security is something we pay into every paycheck, so that when we retire, become disabled or out of work for long times, we have a security net. It isn’t out of the goodness of their hearts that government cuts those monthly checks. The Republicans will cut other areas before they cut that. That lie is told by the dems all the time to put fear into the hearts of those who would vote for Republicans. As I said the biggest cost of living adjustment(cola) in years just happened, so who’s to thank for that, certainly not the dems, the past 8 years have seen no increase or $4.00 or $5.00 increase per month. But Obama sent $4 billion to Iran. Wake-up call. Open your eyes to what’s really happening.

          • There are other programs they would cut.

          • There are a lot of things in the budget that need to go or be trimmed down and I for one am for it. Do you pay taxes, own a home, have kids to send to school, own a car, have bills?

          • How about less military spending?

          • The very reason taxation was allowed and started by our forefathers to provide for a strong navy, which proved to be necessary. Theodore Roosevelt said “walk softly and carry a big stick”. Other nations will think twice about attacking when we are well armed and can fight back. Who gets picked on at school? The one who is perceived to be the weakest, so it is with other countries, human nature. Decrease spending in many other places, but not military, the world is too dangerous.

          • The military is massive, you do know how much you could cut before it’s the close to the second most funded military?

          • No, and neither do you. I guess you fancy learning Chinese or Russian or Farsi. I DO NOT. You are too young to know any better. Hopefully you will grow up, mature and see the world for what it is, a very dangerous place.

          • What dose Farsi have to do with anything?

          • Look it up, you might LEARN something!

          • So, it a wester Iranian language?

          • These programs are failing. There isn’t enough money. The government will erode the dollar’s buying power, keep borrowing more money, and resort to various games to keep things going down the line. Don’t be surprised when a loaf of bread costs 20 bucks around 2040.

          • There isn’t enough money because every time some tries to work out a good spending program conservatives shout ‘socialism’.

          • Wrong again. The budget is nearly double now compared to the last year of GW Bush. How come we’re still running deficits? Because Congress doesn’t actually do real budgets. They just keep spending more on top of their previous spending, and pass continuing resolutions. Don’t just spout what you believe from the media. It’s like you think this is all a religion, and your religion is better than anybody else’s. It’s cold hard facts about money and Congressional corruption. You can’t run for Congress, and stay there, without selling you soul to corporate interests and pandering to voters.

          • Still other countries can do this stuff OK.

          • For a while. Ireland did, but was going bankrupt and had to start getting fiscally responsible. Most of Europe is struggling big time. There is no substitute for fiscal responsibility. Canada nearly went bankrupt in 1998 and their liberal government had to adopt conservative policies. At least their liberals were astute enough to do that! What happens is people lose motivation at the high end and low end and the regulations make productivity problematic. Many businesses get by on a 5% margin, so if the government takes too much, through taxation or regulation, they go out of business. The socialist governments keep going by eroding benefits and the value of their currency.

          • Then why dose one of the most socialist country in the world (China) have the second largest GDP. Europe and Canada are not struggling by the way.

          • Do you know that you are a total mental midget who spouts falsehoods as if they are facts. Most of the major legislative initiatives that Obama signed included Republicans voting for them. There are many of them and I am not going to bother to list them for you because you are too f’ing lazy to do your own research. Only the horrible health care bill, and the Supreme Court nomination are examples where the Republicans drew the line. During the Trump presidency the Democrats have obstructed nearly one hundred percent of the time. Wake up and find out what you are talking about before you open your mouth. It is better to let people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. That saying was obviously intended especially for you.

          • What was wrong with Obama’s Supreme Court picks.
            And Trump’s ideas are far worse then Obama’s.

          • If you read the newspapers and use media, yes, they can get you to believe almost anything. The issues are very complex and far beyond the pay scale of somebody in journalism. There is really only one issue: What is Congress going to do about 142 trillion dollars in Federal liabilities? Trump has little influence on that. Obama formed a bipartisan commission, then rejected their recommendations along with Congress. Trump won because both Dems, Pubs, and others are realizing that DC is broken.

          • I listen to the people with the best sources.
            And what you think is wrong with DC, Trump is not helping.

          • My main sources are the US government websites with data from the irs and allocations by category, and revenue by various categories. Also try the nonpartisan Peterson website. Go there and spend a few hours and weeks and it will finally dawn on you. I admit I was just as uninformed for a long time. I knew it was bad, and regularly wrote my representatives and the president, but was shocked when I found out how bad. I’m a liberal–a real liberal. All liberals should be alarmed because the entitlements and safety nets are all seriously compromised. We’ve been shafted by Congress—and especially by my former party, the Democrats. Libertarians and some pubs understand the problem. Most Democrats seem to be in denial, except possibly Bill Nelson.

          • see my previous post…

          • I didn’t comment on the quality or lack thereof for Kagan and Sotomayor. Suffice it to say that if either one of them had been a conservative pick of a conservative President then the confirmation by the Senate would have been doubtful.

          • So you say.

          • Obama lost the House in the 2010 elections and any lost passed after 2010 needed Republican support. The infamous Pelosi statement about Obamacare was that you have to pass it in order to see what is in it. Not her exact words but close.

          • The Republicans worked with Obama before and after the 2010 elections on many pieces of legislation. The Democrats have obstructed on nearly everything since Trump took office. So you see the difference is that the Democrats “vowed to not cooperate and have continued their obstructionism for almost a year. The Republicans voiced their displeasure , but continued to do their jobs.

          • very on the point. On the tax cuts, not one democrat voted in favor, though a couple now are having second thoughts. They seem to forget that nothing they want to push through can become law without Trump.

          • I am hoping that when the 2018 elections come around, that the electorate are reminded early and often of how the Democrats were the party of no way!

          • With the strong economy under Trump and the recent tax cuts , the Democrats are in trouble. Their only chance is if tax cuts do not work and the economy tanks. Presenting them as obstructionist will be a cake walk.

          • Tax cuts will work and the economy will pick up, as long as there are no other mitigating factors. What is left for us to do is to put forth good candidates, and back them at the polls. The country will not be well served by putting controversial, highly partisan candidates into Washington. We have enough there already.

          • i agree completely with everything you said.
            when consumers are optimistic the economy will grow. It is hard though to know who to support, since politicians tend to promise things they have no intention of following up on. All we can do is vote them out next time.

          • It means that it is important to research the prospective candidates as best we can.

          • We can only keep trying and hope we can find some good people.

          • We have to be open to the more unconventional people, and not be satisfied with whomever the parties feed us. We, as citizens have to be more proactive in the early phases when parties are picking their candidates.

          • I spend hundreds of hours trying to learn all I can and it still is not enough. I lived in Florida when Rubio was first elected and supported him. in hindsight, I might not have.

          • I think Rubio was pretty good when he started out, but like many politicians the power and control they wield change them in ways they would never think possible. That is why I think that term limits are very important for our legislators. Politics was never meant to be a career in our original system.

          • Term limits would be a part of the process. If they knew there was an end to their service, maybe they would be more inclined to make decisions on the basis of what is best for our country, not what is considered popular politically. I also think that they should not receive any retirement pay funded by tax payers.

          • I am not in favor of the big pensions, but I would not want their service to negatively impact their insurance or retirement either. I would also like to see an end to paid lobbyists of all kinds. Citizens petitioning for attention to their issues should not be on a second tier to professional lobbyists.

          • very good post

          • I was not a big Bush fan, but i respect that he allowed Obama to do his thing and never criticized obama. Can you say Obama has shown Trump the same respect.

          • Hell no ,he has jetted all over working against Trump and the US . I am surprised that Obama did not go to North Korea as ha went to many Muslim places . Yes NK has Muslims .

          • I am 72 years old and can remember any ex-president criticizing a sitting President. Obama has shown now class at all in his attacks against Trump.

          • Obama never had any class .

          • Just a skinny ASS!

          • he never had any class except for the muslims

          • what attacks?

          • Bush has criticized Trump to.

          • That is slightly true, but no where near the level that Obama has gone to. It has never happened to any other president during their first year in office. And Bush hardly should be criticizing anyone with all the mistakes he made. Never has a President who just left office , had the disrespect to openly criticize a sitting President. No good can come from doing that.

          • You know, I just heard that Obama is more admired then Trump, he’s going something right.

          • Obama is not in office so all he can do now is complain. I do not put a lot of stock in that poll, but the numbers who admire trump and Obama are close, but Obama was considered the most admired male. Clinton beat out Michele Obama barely for most admired female. The pick of Clinton indicates how reliable that poll is.

          • Obama is in no way the only, or even the biggest critic of Trump.

          • Obama should not be saying anything one way or the other. Even Bill Clinton kept quiet when Bush was elected and Bush was quiet when Obama was elected. that is called simple respect and giving the sitting President time to succeed, but no Obama could not do that and showed a total lack of class, when he did not.

          • what are the criticisms? Please present some facts….

          • I will not spend a lot of time on this. Obama was big on executive orders, but only nine days after trump took office, the first criticism happened. On January 29, he blasted the executive order issued by Trump banning refugees from some countries. Bush nor clinton criticized their successor during their term, much less within nine days. Other such comments by obama have made the news.

          • who else ? the democraps?

          • Actually, a lot of conservatives.

          • that’s the democraps pretending to be republicans

          • who told you that more democraps?

          • Just a poll I read.

          • the same poll that had hitlery winning the election?

          • one like it?

          • I don’t think so?

          • that’s your opinion, and I have mine , that’s what makes the world go around

          • like I said before I don’t believe in polls

          • Oh by the way, there is an ugly rumor that the investigation on the Trump administration is going nowhere and will be dropped by Mueller very soon. Then the Don can get going on his priorities to make America great again and not bowing down to dictatorships and warmongers.

          • I don’t know where you heard that rumor, I heard Muller is looking into Kushner next.

          • Whatever are you left-wingers going to do when the investigators and your left wing politicos have no more taxpayer money to waste on these investigations? I guess Hillarys emails will be next.

          • The Clinton emails are a dead horse conservatives won’t stop beating.

          • And your lefty point is?

          • Clinton’s not getting elected, much less ‘locked up’.

          • Admired by who? That must be the illegals and the Hilliary supporters which are diminishing quickly. By the way when I was drafted in 67 and ended uo in RVN, slick willie was extending his education by leaving the US for periods of time. So that is part of the reason I have so much distaste for that side of the aisle.

          • Trump dodged the draft to you know?
            And Trump supporters are fading faster.

          • I already know the truth. How about your service? We had worse draft dodgers including those who ran to Canada. In fact my turn came up a week sooner because of two soldiers who went on leave from Ft Sill and never returned from Mexico. Oh by the way wasnt your idol Slick Willie furthering his education in the Kremlin at that time ?

          • Trump got a Doctor to lie to the military. And I wasn’t around during the Vietnam war.

          • And this stopped you from serving how?

          • I wasn’t born yet!

          • And this stopped you from volunteering how?

          • I wasn’t of age for any wars!

          • You are over 18 and could volunteer to serve now.

          • What makes you think the military to even take me?🤨

          • I do not know. I do know if you do not serve, you have no right to criticize our military. Many young persons like you do serve and do so honorably.

          • i do not and was only responding to your comment about being too young when we were at war. We do still have troops in mid-east countries and in Germany, France, South Korea and more.

          • I wouldn’t get into the military anyway.

          • We have an all volunteer armed forces and that is perfectly within your right. I did serve and the GI bill allowed me to finish college without suffering too much. The monthly money allowed me to get my college degree.

          • Not everything is about the military.

          • That is true. In fact if the world was perfect, there would be no need and peace would be everywhere.

          • And this stopped you from volunteering how? I was an only child during my service in VietNam, but I wouldnt get an early out. I was not a hero, but still served my country that I love

          • Not that much for U.S. soldiers to do anymore. Even in the fight on Isis, American aid is just advisory or some air strikes.

          • Whats the matter Will? Still couldn’t answer my question about the military? Slick Willie didnt have a deferment like our leader and dont forget Hilliary coming under fire when arriving in Afghanistan. Oh I am glad the soldiers dont have much to do, that means the recent deaths are fake news.

          • I never needed to join the military.

          • Please present some facts regarding Obama’s criticism of trump….

          • you don’t get the point do you?

          • Yes- what critacism has he directed to Trump?

          • Hell no, Obama doesnt have the guts to say that here because he doesnt want to spoil his ill-conceived legacy. Instead, he lets fast and furious Holder do his attacks here and also Rahm Emmanuel from murder city.

          • Specifically what part of the Trump agenda do you have a problem with or is it simply because these ideas come from a Republican. Other than the flawed Obamacare and the stupid Iran agreement , what did Obama really do to make things better or grow our economy. Some might stay that the economy turned around not due to his actions but despite every thing he did to keep corporations under his thumb.

          • I don’t like that Trump is all about getting attention. More to I approve of how pro-big business/ big money he is.

          • Trump has a huge ego. I grant that, but my opinions of trump center around his agenda and what he does not what he says. He is not anti business is a point I will concede. I can see nothing he has done that favors big business over the average american. Were you aware that the top 1% pay 40% of all income tax collected and the top 10% pay more than 70% of all tax collected . how much do you consider to be a fair share.

          • Don’t you see the issue of give huge tax cuts to the people who pay the most taxes.
            And those numbers assume all rich people pay taxes. Many rich have been known to use tax heavens.

          • Those who pay less do not gain or lose by the higher income getting a few more dollars back. Taxes are paid on income and some rich people no longer work. Those loopholes are slowly being closed. they are however legal, so If they use them, I am not bothered by legally reducing income tax paid. the bottom 90% only pay 30% of the total tax collected and those at the lower brackets may not pay anything. Once more i ask, how much is the fair share for higher income.

          • The issues with the 1% is that they control so much money. Do you call that far?

          • it’s not what is a fair %. It’s about how the tax cuts for the upper 1% /10% to be paid for by cutting benefits for the less fortunate and cutting monies that go to the common good(parks, roads,the arts, health care,etc.
            It’s essentially the pursuit of happiness aka the common good.
            A truly great country does both. We become less great when our government is less compassionate.

          • If you can not say if the upper income were paying too much or too little , how can you then even comment about higher income getting their tax cuts. I was not aware that any part of the tax bill took funds away from parks or health care. Why is it so wrong to cut tax for top 10% when they already bear the brunt of tax paid. They pay more than 70% of all income tax collected. The remaining 30% is paid by the other 90% of tax payers. Tell me how much you think is fair.

          • The right % is a percentage that isn’t covered by reducing monies from the commons as stated-What can’t you see that a tax cut for the top 10% doesn’t effect the common good in a negative way. The Congress, per Speaker Ryan, have pledged to make up the lost in revenue by cutting those services.

          • I have no idea what your first sentence even means. I do know it does not change the facts that those who make more money pay most of the tax collected. The last sentence is something that I have not heard said, though we do have a real problem with entitlement spending. Cutting tax for those at the top is ok with me and I fail to see how that affects the bottom 90%, who on a population basis pay a reduced share.

          • Yeah…That first sentence is a mess-I was trying to restate my statement from my previous comment “… It’s about how the tax cuts for the upper 1% /10% to be paid for by cutting benefits for the less fortunate …”

            https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/18/16741730/gop-agenda-medicare-social-security

            http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gop-social-security-20171130-story.html

          • That would require bi partisan action. Our deficit spending is approaching a crisis level. Entitlements are a major part of our budget and a hard look is needed to see what can reasonably be done to bring spending in line with revenues. Identify any fraud and collection by those who are not eligible. Supplemental security income payments should be the first stop, That program is taxpayer funded and not funded by any direct payments by tax payers. Medicaid payments should be reviewed to cut fraud and once more to bring payments in line with revenue. The process must be started soon and the budget can never be balanced without doing that. I worked with young mother who drew medicaid and had her stomach stapled seven times for weight control. she never cut her food intake and each time it failed.

          • what monies that the commons now get does this tax cut take away? You have not answered. They now pay 70% of all income tax collected. Do you think that should be 80% or 90% or should the lower 90% contriibute nothing?

          • then you sure do have a problem

          • obambie has never acted on anything but dragging america down to a third world country

          • How so?

          • by bringing more muslims in our country so they could set up cells giving the muslims money by plane trading killer muslims for a deserter etc.

          • He did do that though?

          • he sure did

          • No he didn’t.

          • prove it and not with your false reports from the media

          • You prove that he did?

          • I already did

          • No you didn’t.

          • as far as I’m concern I did

          • What was the proof again then?

          • I did, still no proof?

          • look harder

          • What where we talking about again?

          • OK.
            The bonuses Trump supporters are going crazy about are one time publicity stunds.

          • how many did obambie give out?

          • Trump isn’t giving any out either.

          • prove that!!!

          • Because the President doesn’t give out bonuses!

          • obambia gave a bonuse to the muslims by a plane

          • He returned Iranian money from a weapons deal that fell through.
            And the video of that plane was American soldiers deplaning in Sweden.

          • he still gave them money, now what do you think the muslims did with that money? buy more head rags?

          • Probably put the money into their economy.

          • they have no economy

          • Every country has economy.

          • except the muslim countries

          • Now you’re just s**t posting.

          • just like your doing !!!

          • I’m trying to make actual points.

          • your not doing too good

          • I’m doing better then you.

          • the only thing you do better is making stupid remarks

          • No, that’s what you do better.

          • there you go again another stupid remark

          • don’t count the one on top of your head

          • that’s because the muslims are s++t

          • No, you are s**t.

          • did your parents have any children that lived?

          • Yes, obviously.

          • you sure don’t act like it

      • Who and where are they laying off ??? I am sure it is not from the top down as usual .

      • That is up to AT&T, not the tax bill. If any of the recipients of the bonus are being laid off they are going to be happy to have the extra cash. However, you didn’t say where, why and to whom the layoffs are happening.

      • In places like Cuba the government runs everything. Friends of mine just came back from there. Trust me: you don’t want that kind of country!

      • there must be a good reason why at&t is laying off

    • Thanks Bill. Liberals are AINO. Americans In Name Only.

  9. I left the Democrats after decades because they seem to have an issue with hard work and the rewards that come from it. If you sacrifice, work two jobs, and earn a good paycheck, they call you greedy for not sharing your good fortune with the slackers and illegal criminal aliens.

    • As opposed to Republicans who call you lazy when despite all your hard work you still end up on hard times?
      Are call you entitled when you think you deserve a little more in a paycheck?

      • Higgins you are a bona fide liberal.

        • I still have a point.

          • The only point you got was from the Satan leadership .

          • Yes you do. A pointed head.

          • How is it a point to accuse Republicans of saying what Democrats say? And by the way—whom do you think is paying for worker’s compensation and welfare? There are tons of services available to people in need, and almost any church will help an indigent. There are also numerous free health clinics.

          • I’m saying you are wrong.
            Also free health clinic are good for small things. What about operations, or long treatments?

          • My sister-in-law is a former president of a major state nursing association. At her hospital, a pauper without insurance can walk in and have a quarter million dollar operation and not pay a dime. The patient can spend months there, if necessary, and not owe anything. It’s the law. If you have assets, they can take them, but they can’t take your car, your retirement, or your home. It’s not perfect, but at 1.6x Canada’s system per capita, it’s a heck of a lot better. My sister-in-law by the way is a Canadian citizen and was trained in Canada. She says there is no comparison: US, flawed as it is, is far better.

          • People on Medicaid also get treated better than those of us with Insurance . Insurance is dictating our treatment today . Only have 5 nurses in the family .Some also varies from state to state laws .

          • That’s not right, people should be treated fairly and with respect. Maybe its the leadership in your area?

          • Medicaid payments are guaranteed and you are right location or states .

          • Yes, and has a lot of abuse. Maybe they see a fat chicken they can “pluck”. We’ve had several doctors arrested and charged with fraudulent activities, so maybe they are maxing out the medicaid payments on those patients?

          • The US had the best health care facilities on average on the planet. People who could afford it flocked to this country to get procedures done. The ACA has damaged the system, but it is not irretrievable yet. I lived in Europe and my cousin still does, and we would not hesitate to have any serious condition dealt with here over Europe.

          • Actually it started going down hill with the invention of the HMO , the ACA put the finishing touches on health care . It depends on where in the EU you are talking about . friends of mine go every year for 2 weeks health spa . glasses are $3.00 . health care does not dictate how you get treated and the type of meds you are allowed like here . Another friend had a baby and when the child goes to School she is entitled to her old job from before maternity leave . how does that work in the US ????

          • Ask them how much taxes are, off the charts. If you want half or more of your paycheck to go for $3.00 glasses for everyone then move there.

          • Actually not any worse than the USA , gas tax is worse but the roads are a hell of a lot better . Unless you worked there just like the US you are not covered .

          • Much worse actually. Don’t know where you were, but it wasn’t most.

          • Don’t know where you live, but the roads in north Texas are very good.

          • Up in frost land where we are having a heat wave of a high of ten degrees and below 0 at night . Global warming has hit us .

          • Guess we’re having a “tropical”heat wave at 46 degrees. Although it’s supposed to get a lot colder over the weekend.

          • That is why you do not have the frost heaving of your roads that helps destroy them . We get 4-6 feet of frozen ground if there is low snow cover .And naturally the gas and oil industry jacks up the prices .

          • Wow, that’s really cold! I’m originally from Indiana and can remember the pot holes on the asphalt, not as bad on concrete, which we have a lot of here.

          • I am a mathematical physicist with four decades of experience. I have studied climate change for over ten years. I would not make so confident a statement, and no scientist worthy of the name should do so, either. The system is nonlinear and chaotic. Entropy comes into play big time—it means you can’t mitigate any problem you cause–but the climate scientists haven’t figured that out yet.

          • You are 100% right. European taxes are through the roof: 40% – 55% and higher!!!
            And the education and medical services still cost and not little.
            Let all of the people unhappy with Trump’s policies move out of the USA. Let them go wherever they like and wherever they think it is better: Venezuela, Canada, Russia, Ukraine, Sweden, Germany, Norway!!!! Let them. May be then we will breathe freely in America.

          • How I wish they would! I read recently, one country was well over 50%, don’t recall which one, should’ve flagged it.

          • That’s the US. About 50% pay no federal income tax, yet protest for services. And many of those 50% actually get a check from the IRS at tax time.

          • I’d like to be able to do that.

          • Wonderful proposal Nick. It would be great if we could get rid of the vermin leeches here. We have a faction here who consider themselves “entitled” to everything and they bitch if asked to pay for something. Get rid off those leeches.

          • Did you ever figure out what we all pay in taxes , from sales tax to Federal tax . You would be surprised if you added everything for a whole year .

          • Too much, too many agencies adding in extra fees, licensing fees, etc. I kniw we basically work the first few months of a year before we are actually earning “our” money. That’s why I’m happy about the new tax bill, my percentage dropped 4 points. With all that said, I’ll take America over any other country, and if immigration is any indication, so do a lot of others!

          • It is usually some time in May when people start making for themselves . AS far as Immigration goes there are way more Illegals in the country than legal ones .

          • You are right about that, I run into them all the time here in Texas. Can’t speak English, I feel sorry for them, but when is Mexico going to take care of it’s own? They could so easily repeat what we have if they just would try. The ones, I do not like are the muslims, they look at you with hate and try to run over you with their baby carriages, especially the little boys! Or bump into you on purpose, knock you into the street, etc

          • Don’t be fooled by the Spanish speaking people , many used Mexico to travel to the USA . Mexico gave them temporary Visas and then Processed them into the US . The UN and Clinton along with Obama allowed that . The Muslims will be a problem like the Cubans and Hmong were and still are .

          • My son’s tennis coach came from England. Thanks to their healthcare system, his first daughter, who needed an inexpensive drug available in the US, now has a lifetime disability because it was not on the formulary. “Enjoy your special needs child”, they were told! Their healthcare system works well for the young and not too ill. The tennis coach says he will never, ever return. Even six years ago, he said it was terminal. Totally messed up.

          • On the other hand drugs are available in Europe and not in the USA . But I personally do not consider England as part of Europe seing they did not switch to the Euro /

          • England opted out. Their healthcare system, and their country, is on the path to perdition. It was paved with good intentions, as always.

          • England and France created big problems for themselves by letting themselves get invaded . Just look how long it took them to put guards at the end of the tunnel to stop the spread of people .

          • When was the last attack in either of those countries?

          • When the Muslims invaded France and went through the tunnel to England

          • Was that even a attack?

          • The countries in question are fiscally hanging by threads. And most of them also count on the US to provide their defense. Sweden, for example, spends next to nothing. They know we’ll save them.

          • What is so much worse in Canada then?

          • With social medicine, you go on a long waiting list and may die before ever receiving treatment. This happened to my next door neighbor’s mother. She had an aneurysm, they put her on a waiting list, she died first. My mother had an aneurysm, was treated immediately here, recovered. It is an emergency condition. social medicine is joke for which the citizens of those countries pay huge taxes, 50% and more. Socialism bankrupts every country it has been tried in. See :Venezuela right now, children are dieing ftom malnutrition and the dictator refuses aid.

          • And people in America die not even on a waiting list
            And Venezuelan has less government control of the economy then Singapore.

          • Good grief Will, people die everywhere every day, it’s a natural conclusion to life. The point with Venezuela is that is was a healthy country not long ago, then went to socialism and is going down the tubes. Educate yourself, look into it!

          • It was oil prices, not socialism.
            https://youtu.be/k_JhRVlIR-c

          • Hit their economy hard, as well as many others. Do you see America falling apart because of oil prices, which, by the way, have rebounded.

          • America is as dependent on oil. You know coal country? If that was it’s own country it would be like Venezuela.

          • We are not. Also new areas of our country are being opened in an attempt to make us less dependent on other countries for oil. They love our money and are gonna miss it. Any person in charge, a leader, should know better than to “put all your eggs in one basket”, old adage but wise.

          • I meant ‘isn’t as dependent’.
            But my point about coal country still stands.

          • you are looking down your nose who live in the states that still mine coal. It is still used as a fuel source, as is oil and natural gas. So far the so callled green fuels have flopped.

          • I’m saying a economy based on just one resource is not stable.
            Be it a region, or a whole country.
            Both Venezuela, and the U.S. coal country were overalls dependent on resources that have seen a decline in demand, even the coal miners of Kantucky can see this. A lot of them would rather be retrained for newer jobs.

          • Read recently that the liberals who fought use of coal in New England area are now freezing. Coal has been used to heat water for steam to run generators of electricity. No coal. No steam. No generating electricity to keep homes warm and lights on. Does New England area have natural gas?

          • Probably trucked or piped in. We need to use all fuel sources available. We do put carbon dioxide in the air. Forest fires contribute more carbon dioxide than all of the cars in this country combined. When cows fart, they emit a lot of methane over a years time. There are 1.5 billion cows world wide. 200 kg of methane is equivalent to 2000 kg of carbon dioxide. there is conflicting information on global warming. Some sources say there has been no change this century and some say we have seen 1/2 degree fahrenheit.

          • Thanks Frank. I’m a believer that “balance” was considered before Creation so that all of these things were taken into account. There is a possibility that one volcanic eruption can put more pollutants into the atmosphere than humans can in a century or more. I’m with you about our use of all fuel sources available. Those who concoct arguments against coal or pipelines are ones who have a vested interest that might be upset by the presence of those two items. We should take advantage of the presence of our resources and STOP depending on petroleum we’ve been buying from sand kingdoms. The scientific community does not support the idea of “global warming”.

          • An incredible piece of Left fascist propaganda with FAKE NEWS all over the clip!!
            There is absolutely no doubt in the fact that Venezuela became a socialist country under Chavez and went even more in the same direction under the current criminal Maduro.

          • Then why is their economy less controlled then Singapore, and why do the Venezuelains love the late President, but dislike the current one?

          • A modest proposal Higgins…Pack up and move to Venezuela. Based on your posting, you’ll love it.

          • I know Venezuela is in bad shape now. But you can’t just blame socialism and move on.

          • Why not! Socialism is the problem. You seem to like it. So MOVE ON down there!

          • It’s not the problem with Venezuela.

          • They are run by idiots like our Democrats that you are in love with . Pack your bags and leave .

          • They are to depended on one resource.

          • Then you need to do an intense study of the country, research history, etc. Do not compare apples to oranges, eg Venezuela and Singapore. Search it out.

          • You are wasting your breath. I gave Will the same kind of talk just yesterday about doing some research, and actually learning about an issue before trying to argue with people. He just can’t help himself.

          • I think you are right wasting my time, although it does sharpen the debate skills… 😉

          • I was comparing how controlled each economy is.

          • Thanks Pro-Israeal. Perfect logical answer.

          • Thank you, although your answer would probably have a more lasting effect.

          • If I am not mistaken they are part of OPEC , it just happens their Oil is Gov. controlled and not in demand ,seeing we get the same crappy Oil out of Canada . Brent and Texas Sweet are in demand .

          • They are trying to start a oil backed crypto-currency, maybe they trying to rebound?

          • There is no demand for the low quality oil that comes from there . Oil is pretty much controlled by OPEC and the Market . A pipe line in Libya caused this last spike and now the cold weather added to it . Plus the US let its reserve go down which in turn helps the market boys and also raises prices for everyone .

          • So, it’s not socialism then?

          • Do you need glasses to read and understand ???? All of south America is Hurting because of poor leadership .

          • Then, not socialism, right?
            Because bad leadership transends the political spectrum.

          • Instead of posting garbage , maybe you should read more of what is going on world wide .

          • I do follow what goes on in the world.
            And what I post is not garbage.

          • That’s YOUR opinion.

          • I’ve been stating facts.

          • Higgins you are a socialist. How do we know? Because you keep coming back to protect socialism. Socialism is one of the items that comes from poor leadership. Dictators are out for themselves, not for mankind. They care nothing for the masses. Blame things on oil if you care to. It’s your scape goat to deflect attention away from socialism which is a root of much evil and bad economy.

          • I’m not scapegoating, I’m saying facts.

          • WOW , do you even have a brain ?

          • What has Singapore to do with anything. You jumped from USA to Singapore. You liberals are all alike. Just argue, argue, argue, argue ad infinitum.

          • He is a real Idiot .

          • ……argumentative like a high school sophomore. Do liberals ever reach adult level mentality?

          • More like kindergarten kids that all want the same toy .

          • Yes Retired. Even though the room is loaded with toys they want the one someone else has. If the Jews/Israel did not exist the so-called “Palestinians” would not be aware that the present “Isreal” territory exists. If the Jews proclaimed “Israeli” lands were of no value to themselves the “Palestinians” would go off somewhere else and claim ownership of another territory.

          • I remember years back there was a pipe line proposed and until Palestine becomes a recognized country ,it will not be built . One reason the UN is pushing for Statehood .

          • NO, because WE, the Parent’s, of these ‘children’, PAMPERED them, WAY too much! WE, made them BELIEVE, EVERYTHING they did, was PERFECT, & that THEY, would always be ‘Taken care of”, no matter what! WE, did that to our kids, America! BOY, did THAT come back & “bite us!

          • Phoenix I think you’ve been totally up front honest here. You uncovered the reason. Thanks.

          • Singapore is praised by capitalists for it free market economy, if their economy is less controlled then Venezuela, then what dose that say about Venezuela?

          • I ditto my original response. You jump around for the sake of arguing. You thrive on mental masturbation.

          • Wasn’t it you who told me I was wasting my time arguing with Will? Hmm, pretty sure it was. See, sometimes you can’t help yourself. It;s just a natural thing to want to help the hopeless. I think you may need an intervention!

          • You are right safari. I just helped prove discussing with a liberal is a waste of computer time. They are like teenagers riding the roadways. They have nowhere to go, they’re just out riding.

          • I made a valid argument, were’s you’re counter-argument?

          • I don’t play your game.

          • People Die ALL the time and will continue to die all the time until God comes to judge.
            Venezuela is a socialist mess and Singapore has benefited greatly from AMERICAN strides in medicine and about treatment , you know nothing.

          • How can Venezuela be socialist if their economy is deminated by free market enterprise?

          • If Venezuela has a “free market enterprise” system then explain why it is in shambles. Things were fine until Hugo Chavez and his successor came to power.

          • Part of the problem is their raw Oil is of low quality and the market is flooded with it ,so there is no demand .Plus like you said poor politics .

          • Ha ha. Thanks Retired. Looks like Venezuela has had its own Obamanation. Socialism/communism just do not work. But we
            have upstarts like Vladimir Lenin who elbow their way into politics for their own desire to sit upon the Throne as did Her Highness Hillary.
            And unfortunately we have an overabundance of Josef Stalin *useful idiots* who fall for the scam. Some people never learn. They never paid attention in class to learn the lessons of history. When they don’t get their candy they hang out in the streets and howl at the sky. Recall late November, 2016!

          • One still cries every night to fall asleep because she lost .

          • Again, Venezuela is not socialist!
            Also Lenin generally cares more about his movement then power, even his enamies said so.

          • Vladimir Lenin has been dead for decades.

          • I meant ‘cared’, I meant to write in the past-tense.

          • Because of oil prices!
            Were does it say that free market economies are collapse?
            And Chavez ran thing OK, his successor has screwed up though.

          • What are these excusions into fantasy? Will, get a grip! It is likely true, because Singapore is an extreme case, but you’re drawing inferences on very special cases.

          • Will’s excursions are his attempts to deflect attention away from the basic cause (socialism here) of the downfall of an economy and social order. Liberals are known to pick minute things only remotely related and use them as attention getters to deflect attention off the subject at hand. When asked about the issue they will ask a question in return that is also designed to get the first questioner off track. It is an attention-changing game they play. Be aware!

          • So it seems! Liberals also like to invent names that change the meaning of things, such as “undocumented immigrant” instead of “illegal immigrant”. By that reasoning, I could make an undocumented withdrawal of cash by busting into a money mover machine and face no consequences! It’s like we’re dealing with a nation of children, and not very swift children, at that.

          • Brilliant observation cv. So If i were to rob a bank it would be an “undocumented withdrawal” and never be debited from MY bank account. Interesting. That’s tantamount to painting an old car and saying it just came off the assembly line. And incidentally Nancy Pelosi would say, “Let’s hurry up and pay for it so we can see if it runs good.”

          • Venezuela still has to much private ownership in it economy to be called ‘socialist’.

          • Socialism ends in dictatorship

          • That’s correct. My sister-in-law, a Canadian-trained nurse who now works in the US, agrees with you. And the statistics are biased because if you die before getting treatment, it doesn’t count against the system!

          • That’s crazy, that completely skews the numbers and percentages to make it look way better than it is. Everyone needs to be made aware of this since so many think social medicine is a good idea. Bad, very bad!

          • Another bias is that here we take chances, and work to save the life of very ill people that the Canadian system would send to hospice. So people here are more likely to die while being treated—because doctors can do more, and risk more, to save them. When they die, it counts against the US system, whereas if we sent them to hospice like Canada, it would not! Took me a while to understand how bad single payer is. I supported it for a quarter century before getting properly informed! You really have to talk to someone who has worked inside both systems for years to understand it. Very messed up!

          • Good grief! So basically, they just send them to a hospice to die!? I would never support a single payer anything, because it becomes a monopoly that way and you have no other choice. With no competition, why bother with trying to improve, either you take what you get or you get nothing. Now that is really bad.

          • By the way, I have had medical issues since I was born due to internal birth defects. Sis-in-law told me I wouldn’t have made it to my twentieth birthday in Canada.

          • Now that is sad, it would seem the US values life more than some Canadians? Where is the inspiration, the desire to develope new and better methods to save lives and/or prolong life when possible. That seems headed toward “survival of the fittest”, which would eliminate a lot of people. I do wish Americans would get away from all kinds of drugs and strive to be more healthy in their lifestyles.

          • A lot of the world depends on the US to develop medical techniques and drugs first, then they copy them at naturally very low expense. Canada nearly melted down in 1998 and the liberal government had to start acting conservative to save the country. They began giving block grants to the provinces and telling them just do what they could with them. They aren’t sending them to hospice maliciously. They don’t have the money, the equipment, or the staff to see people in a timely fashion. What socialism does is reduce motivation of the most motivated and also the least motivation. And because health care is “free”, there is less motivation to keep yourself alive. I worked hard, and trained hard, the first to have the money I needed to survive, and the second to keep in top form. Almost died three or four times but in at least two of those cases, my excellent physical conditioning (walking, swimming, two hours of yoga a day, vegetarian diet, no smoking drinking or drugs) kept me alive.

          • You would make a great motivational speaker to a lot of different groups of people. Clean living would help to eradicate a lot of the “disease” we see today, especially the dietary type, allergies, obesity, some types of behavioral malaise, and just feeling better and having more energy. I wish you good health and no more close calls. But most importantly, the need to keep government out of healthcare.

          • Being able to be evaluated for problems. Many Canadians take great risks to cross their Southern border to get medical evaluations and treatments in USA much quicker. Socialism sucks! It works fine until you run out of other peoples’ money. –Margaret Thatcher.

          • And Americans go to Canada for medicine.
            And American Doctors say great things about Canadian healthcare.
            https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/12/14/570216320/heading-north-american-doctors-report-back-from-canada

          • You liberals thrive on argumentation. Let’s see you dig up some propaganda saying God does not exist and which absolutely proves it. That’s your homework for the next four decades. Good luck.

          • I’m the one making a real case here.

          • …for your own ignorance.

          • No , you ARE the real NUT CASE here. The only case you have made is you have no clue what you are babbling about. It would be laughable if it wasn’t such a sad thing that you are incapable of rational thought.

          • NPR…. NATIONAL Preposterous Radio . My doctor calls those reports idiotic in the extreme. SOME medicines are cheaper ( And not as high quality ) and some doctors like Rham Emmanuel’s brother need to shut up after crafting the worst BS ” Healthcare ” plan ever foisted on a country. There are SOME deluded doctors who think Canada’s plan is good , but they won’t go there for treatment.

          • The facts seem to be against you?

          • Raquel Salientes

            Name one American citizen who went to Canada for treatment, with proof, please

          • Let facts be submitted to a candid world! We are waiting.

          • What are you trying to say?

          • I certainly wouldn’t.

          • I bet more Canadians come to USA for healthcare needs than Americans going to Canada.

          • My dad had a Dr. from Canada. He refused to give him pain relief, even though Dad was dying and out of his mind with pain. He said I couldn’t move him to somewhere that would. I reined down hell on him and called for compassionate care. Dad was moved to a nursing home, where he gently passed on.

          • It doesn’t matter where the doctor is from, but which country do the practice in.

          • Oklahoma

          • So, your Dad was screwed over by the U.S. healthcare system?

          • No, Will. That Dr. didn’t believe in pain relief. I was told by the nurses and staff that he didn’t believe in giving pain relief, regardless of the prognosis. He wasn’t ever there except to walk in, ignore the pain and moans-just tell us what he thought and walk out. My mother was dealing with this until I drove to their city and saw it for myself. He was dying and in immense pain. The other Drs. came in and said this was how he was. I got hospice care when he refused to medicate him and told me I had no right to move him out of that hospital. They all believed this was because he was trained in Canada. He came to the US, as he said, because he wasn’t making any money in Canada.

          • Sorry about your dad.
            But I don’t see how being from Canada made him be against pain killer?

          • You are very naive. But I admit I was, as well. Get better informed. You’re basically swallowing the propaganda. “Look, we’ll give you all free health care, vote for us!” That’s the Democrat/liberal con game. It took me decades to gather enough info. France, England, and Sweden have major problems with their “free” health care. It will get worse.

          • And America’s healthcare is perfect, my Mom would have loved to get on a waiting list while we were trying to get her healthcare after our move.

          • Here’s a quote from my sister-in-law, a Canadian-trained nurse and former president of a major US nursing association: “The Canadian healthcare system is excellent, if you’re young and not very ill.” Read that a couple times and let it sink in!

          • Are you sure he wasn’t talking a healthcare proposed bill from the GOP?

          • Probably cherry-picking. I believed all that stuff–being a big fan of Ralph Nader—for decades, and even wrote Congress and the president demanding single payer! Then I had one conversation with my sister-in-law, and investigated for myself. Liberal politicians here in America have biased the statistics (which are already biased) in order to bolster their political positions. My sister-in-law, as president of a major state nursing association, presided over meetings where all the biased and inaccurate information was trotted out. Yes, vote for us, because we’re going to give you free health care that’s great like Canada’s! You could use some cynicism. As a former Dem Lib, I’ll lend you some of mine. Dems used to be more principled. See JFK. (Although his love life was perhaps not ideal.) Now they are far worse than Pubs! I thought it would never happen!

          • It looks more like the people saying single payer doesn’t work are cherry picking.

          • I know that I oppose giving our federal government control over more than 1/3 of our economy. If that happened, other things would follow until we became a socialist country.

          • The slippery slop argument doesn’t work because so many other countries have single payer, but not total government control.

          • Once more, i prefer a free market system. You can look closely at those countries and make your way there for better insurance if you really think single payer is better and more efficient. No one is making you stay here.

          • Most people in America want single payer healthcare.

          • Talk to doctors and patients who live under the single payer system and see what most of them think about it.

          • I know some under that system criticize it, just the same is true about the American system.

          • I don’t doubt that some do. So what?

          • It’s mean the Cabadaian healthcare system has its merits.

          • There are also a whole bunch of negatives, such as the long wait list.

          • Is long wait lists the only down size, because it sound fixable?

          • I think you would find your time better spent dealing with issues that affect our country. UK and Canada both have much longer waits and the level of care available here is superior to that available in any other country. I am talking about the care itself not health insurance, since i am not a huge fan of Obamacare.

          • Level of care is more of a issue within the industry itself, universal healthcare is about getting people access to healthcare.

          • Access to health care is not denied in this country. We use the free market, capitalism method to provide health care. If you want universal health care, there are plenty of countries you could move to. Canada is one of those, as is France, and the UK.

          • The free market has it limits, healthcare seem to be one of them.

          • We do not nor do I see this country moving to single payer any time soon. Now if you prefer that system, there are some choices you have in other countries. You might not like the wait list in places like Canada, but you could probably move there if you consider that better. I do not.

          • Why are wait lists such a deal breakers, it is better then nothing, and more of a logistical problem.

          • Wait lists are only a problem for those on the wait list. I also checked on the % of Americans in favor of single payer, but only found one back in june of last year. The figure in that poll was 33% , which is a far cry from most.

          • If you are on one of those wait list, you would likely not call it a logistical problem.

          • What would you call it if the healthcare system can’t keep up with need?

          • Any person who lives here and that includes illegal immigrants can get health care even if unable to pay or not insured. Free market takes care of pretty much everything.

          • America is the only country who still tries to fix healthcare with the free market, and it has the most expensive healthcare.

          • So called universal healthcare would give the federal government control of about 1/3 of our economy. Government seems to have a problem with waste and firing a bad employee does not happen along with other waste and inefficiencies. NO person is denied needed health care in this country. Our emergency rooms treat any person that goes there as do hospitals if illness requires hospitalization. so what would universal health care add that is not already there.

          • People who are not getting the healthcare they need getting it?

          • This is not about healthcare, but I did think it was important information. The DOW hit another record high today when it closed up 102.80 points for another record of 25395.

          • I still don’t see why the DOW going up under Trump always ‘record breaking’ but when it happened under Obama, no one talked about it?

          • The talk was non-ending during those 8 years. The dow reached a bottom early in Obama’s first year and did go up from there setting a number of records. It did slow towards the end of his term. In 8 years the Dow reached the previous high and did set a new record dozens of times after that. The total gained during those eight years was about 10000 points. We have seen more than 80 records under Trump and a surge of about 7000 points in one year.

          • Are you sure about that, because if ‘the talk was non-ending’ what was with all the ‘economic anxiety’?

          • Yes, that is correct. My cabbie in Buffalo, a layed off steel worker (jobs sent to China!) told me that there is a constant flow of people from Canada getting free care in Buffalo, taxing their healthcare. Canadian mothers also prefer the much better-equipped maternity units in the US.

          • Thanks cv. Generally I’m apposed to anyone crossing US borders to get freebees. However, again generally speaking, I’m more comfortable with Canadians crossing for healthcare needs than for criminals infiltrating from the South and Middle East to disrupt our social order and milk US taxpaying workers for unearned handouts. Handouts are NOT entitlements. And my comment here is NOT an invitation to cross our Northern border for care.

          • Canadian citizens, of course, can cross easily with their passports. The rules are different on the northern border, as I recall.

          • It might appear that less scum enters from the North. No apologies for that statement. My interest is protecting US Citizens from vermin entering with diseases and criminal histories or intent. America is not a free flop house or soup kitchen although liberals seem to want to convert our great nation to one and make it like a North Korea, Cuba, or Venezuela. I read recently that the Chinese do not allow immigration of the kind we’re being deluged with.

          • I am usually kinder but I agree that illegal immigrants should be deported, and their country of origin penalized. It is really the responsibility of Mexico, Costa Rica, etc to control their own citizens, but it is well known (except to “liberals”) that the Mexican government absolutely supports illegal immigration into the US. It’s really an invasion, taking advantage of the soft-heartedness of the target country. How do I know? President Nieto proclaimed the illegals should be granted their “full rights” in the US! August 2014. And they have a 50 million dollar fund to help keep their people here, where they can earn money and send it home, and gradually take over the nation by reproducing faster than the citizen population. The real problem is that most countries are corrupt and have bad cultures that prevent them from creating a healthy and prosperous society. By allowing people to enter the country indiscriminately, we are dooming the US to Cuba, etc. They can come legally, if we want them. Otherwise, they can stay home and fix their home country.

          • Good post cv. Unfortunately the scum administration that wangled its way into the Oval Office (turned Crescent Office) nine years ago has no interest in the integrity of the USA. Its supporters are the very scum of the earth to support such filth. Thank God we now have a level-headed President who made something of himself with devotion to honest, hard work and is now serving the Nation without pay. Did the scumbag from Africa work for free? I’m for stopping his pension and secret service protection. He’s not an American.

          • Interesting that the people who clamor for Trump’s very complex taxes—which the IRS auditors have been examining for decades—didn’t seem to think seeing Obama’s birth certificate was necessary, despite the fact he spent a couple million dollars in legal fees to NOT show it! And then the first one that went up looked fake. (I saw it before he had it taken down. Amateurish. The next one, a couple weeks later, looked more authentic.) While my liberal friends called me a racist, they failed to realize that an honest person can usually produce his birth certificate in a matter of minutes, at no cost.

          • Logical post cv. Thanks. The issue that was paramount was the hiding of the information. What’s wrong with producing one’s Birth Certificate? I’ve had to do it for a few documentations. The mere hiding of the information is prima-facie evidence that something might NOT be legal. So Obama has a red flag and red flashing light so-to-speak regarding his place of birth and about his alleged academic accomplishments. I’m not convinced he ever attended schooling at the university or law school levels now. NOBODY has come forward and claimed to have known him during student years.
            Normally, when someone becomes a celebrity a lot of people will come out of the woodwork and claim to have known the person. I grew up in the same city where a TV personality grew up. Where are people who could have known Barack Obama? Is there a photo of him in the school annuals?

          • Trump is far from level headed, and does not care about America.
            Trump makes more money from his private businesses.
            And Obama worked harder then Trump.

          • You are correct. Obama worked harder than (not then) Trump to destroy the USA. Good for Donald Trump if his private holdings bring him lots of money. That’s what the American way is all about. Free enterprise; nothing like it, absolutely nothing. (with apology to Budweiser re. its 1950’s advertising, Your Show of Shows, Sid Caesar and Imagene Coca.)

          • What exactly did Obama do to ‘destroy the USA’ again?

          • Trump works both hard and smart. He is drawing no pay from his companies and he also draws no pay for being President. Well that is not totally true. By law he must take the pay, but he then turns around and donates to charity. His daughter and son in law also do not receive pay. The televised meeting today showed clearly that Trump knows what he is talking about and is well aware of what is being said in that room. It is kind of hard to argue the other side when he showed who was in charge of that meeting .

          • Trump golfs more the Obama, and has not shown much thought in his other areas.
            Yes he still gets money from his businesses. And at his meeting he was open to giving DREAMERS a path to citizenship.
            I expecally have a problem with Trump burning bridges with allies, cutting the U.S. out of the global conversation, and calling it all ‘America first’.

          • We still talk to other countries about common interest, but the day of putting our interest second is gone, at least for now. Trump met with Republicans at camp David to discuss his agenda and he is open to protecting Dreamers but only if border control and Fence are included. Reagan agreed to grant amnesty to millions, with promise of securing border afterwards. that did not happen and we are at essentially that same point once more. Trump will not fall for future promises. Fence with border security or no DACA/

          • The border is secure!
            America is being included in less and less of global things. Europe is looking into upping it self defense, the Koreas are talking with any American’s, and China is building it’s own interests, and I doubt Trump ‘defunding the U.N.’ is going to have the affect his supporters think it will.

          • When people can just walk into our country and that is still happening every day, the border is not secure. On what basis do you even dare say that. As for the European Union providing their own defense, i find that unlikely. The members of NATO do not even now pay their fair share of mutual defense cost, with the one exception being the United States. I think that change in UN funding will impact the UN. We are talking hundreds of millions in reduced contribution. Work with other countries but never at the cost of putting our interest second to theirs.

          • No border is totally sealed off, but undocumented immigration has been going down for years.
            Read this about E.U. defense spending. https://www.google.com/search?q=eu+military&prmd=nisv&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj15eXz-87YAhUO0lMKHavkBhYQ_AUIESgB
            Other countries can fill the gap America left. I think some people have falsely assumed the whole world has been freeloading.

          • You said the border is secure, so why do thousands cross each week. The NATO contributions are public record and other members are not paying their fair share. I hope they do start to carry their share of the load. As for the UN, that is nothing but one huge expensive joke, that has strayed far from the purpose it was established for. We need to stop financial aid to every country that opposes us.

          • Most of them do it legally.
            If the E.U. builds its own military, it could decrease the need for NATO.
            The point of being part of a organization is that at some point, thing will not go your way.

          • The members of the EU are also members of NATO. At present , they do not even meet their obligations to NATO, so what makes you think that they will change with the EU. By the way, the EU and its members have sent forces to other countries a couple of dozen times in the last 23 years, but nothing recently.

          • Each NATO member chooses how much send. With a E.U. military, it would all be up to the people in Brussels.

          • Nato made an assessment of what each country should contribute and few are living up to their agreement.

          • Still doesn’t mean they wouldn’t fund their own military.

          • Time will tell, but up to this point, the NATO members have not even paid what they agreed to pay. I have my doubts, based on their history.

          • And my recent research shows the first signs of a E.U. military.

          • Don’t count on it! As for me, It could only take some pressure off the united States. The old saying is don’t count your chickens before they hatch.

          • A lot of military resources go to Europe, so it would be a good relief.

          • It is not likely to happen, but if it does, it will give us support in actions that we have not had before. In many instances we bore the brunt of the military and financial costs of actions outside our domestic borders.

          • It seems more likely to lead to weaker leaks between the U.S. and Europe?

          • I do not see it quite the same way. The German military is small, but we have thousands of troops there in case Germany has a problem and need help. NATO countries are now being pressured to meet their agreed upon contributions .

          • a % of gdp was agreed upon by all NATO members. At this point , most have not met the agreed upon contributions. The EU does vote on things and they do have a military made up of military from the member countries. Very ineffective and not very well run.

          • I’m saying the E.U. Is working on building a more effective military.

          • No it would still be up to the individual members of the EU. the EU has no military, only the individual members have a military.

          • This was in the New York Times so I am not sure how accurate it is. It does look like they voted to invest in equipment, but a military needs bodies and they do not appear to have committed to providing those bodies to create a EU army.

            Merkel seems to stress the need for cooperation with UK and the US.

          • I first read about it on a News site from Europe, but I can’t find it now.

          • The EU as a body can agree to contributions in the same way that the members of NATO have. Will the members of NATO now abandon NATO which is effective, though underfunded. If so will the EU then suffer the same fate of being underfunded.

          • The E.U. Is doing O.K. for the most part.

          • I have no quarrel with the EU. I do know that very few countries will put the best interest of their own country in second place to the EU. The EU has actually not done a whole lot and if they finally work with the United States on problems like those in Iran and North KOrea, I am right there with them.

          • Technically, a E.U. member states would be acting in it’s best interests by propping up their union. Have you heard of the controversy about Poland. Their ruling party is Consolidating power and taking control of their judiciary, and the European council is intervening.

          • I happen to believe that each member of the EU should put the interest of their own country first. I have not read this, but I think Poland has every right to determine what happens within Poland. The EU is very limited in what it can do in that regard.

          • The E.U. has done a lot for Europe.
            And intervening in Poland is about protecting separation of powers, and rule of law, which are all thing conservatives claim to support.

          • I do support rule of law here, but I do not think we should intervene nor should the EU intervene in internal affairs in another country. What do you think the EU can do if Poland proceeds as they appear to be.

          • With our reduced contribution, the UN has a couple of choices. 1. Have other countries pick up what we no longer contribute 2. Cut spending to come within available funds. The UN is a joke and has a history of opposing us on many issues.

          • The ‘I want it my way’ approach (that many American abseninalists prefere), tends to contradict with the ‘wisdom of the crowd’ approach the U.N. uses.

          • I would hardly call the UN opposing our stance on jerusalem as being very wise. How many UN forces are there in the countries where ISIS used to have huge control. The UN inspectors are even stopped from inspecting many sites within Iran. How many in the security council other than the united states even mention that? Some of the major human rights violators sit on the UN human rights council.

          • Seeing as how Trump’s Jerusalem decision could spark another war, opposing it has diner merit.
            Iran says it would cooperate with the UN inspectors with the U.S. meets it’s ends of the agreement.

          • Why than did they previously deny access to some key areas. No one know if enrichment is happening in those areas or not. I think we should impose any sanctions possible until they are completely in compliance with agreement and all UN sanctions on missile testing.

          • They were listening to the deal for a long time until Trump started treatening to kill the deal.

          • Trump just waived sanctions for three more months with a warning that if they do not start to comply with inspectors and more, that the waivers will not happen in April. The Iran deal has to be the most one sided deal we have ever participated in. Iran gave up very little and in return got a whole lot.

          • What was America getting form sanctioning Iran anyway?

          • Sanctions can occur in many ways. they are usually well thought out and can vary from controlling their imports, freezing accounts of key officials. They are usually developed so as to impose financial and other pains on the country being sanctioned. I think it does work and is far better than military action for wrong doing.

          • The same Iranians who are protesting their government are also the one happy the sections got lifted?

          • From the date of the signing of the Iran agreement, they have blocked UN inspectors from several key sites. The inspectors can not conclusively say what does or does not happen within those sites. What iran got from the deal far exceeds what they gave up.

          • And America wasn’t getting anything from sections.
            Who would Iran Nuke anyway?

          • Trump will not sign any deal that does not include the wall and substantial immigration reform, such as ending diversity lottery and reforming chain migration.

          • I just heard today that Trump doesn’t even know how chain migration and the diversity lottery work. https://youtu.be/tmsC-7QwRjU
            And he was offered a good deal last week.

          • What deal was he offered that you consider so great. He has been very clear on what he wants in order to approve a deal on DACA. Trump is much smarter and better informed than you seem willing to acknowledge.

          • He would have taken the deal if it wasn’t for right-wing media. That deal included border security funding, and the end to the diversity lottery, sound pretty great for Republicans?

          • The funding for the wall was not included and it also added protection for the people from Nicaragua who now face deportation. The deal did nothing to control chain migration. Currently when one person is admitted, another ten qualify simply due to being related to that one.

          • https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/politics/wp/2018/01/20/schumer-offered-trump-something-democrats-hate-to-get-something-republicans-broadly-like/
            And chain migration is not some free for all. It more complicated then they make it sound. It takes years, you can’t bring in married adult children…

          • Chain migration allows the relatives of an immigrant to follow the immigrant. Trump wants to limit numbers and also to make immigration merit based, not something due to being related to some one here.

          • The so called deal had more money for border security, but no funding for the wall. It did end diversity lottery, but made no changes to chain migration. It also included a deal to allow the 2500 or so nicaraguans who came here under temporary visas some years ago due to natural disaster which had long since been cleared up but they still remained. Their visas are being terminated and they are now in line for deportation.

          • The original reason for the visas has long since been eliminated.

          • Source?

          • So you agree that they are not now cooperating with the UN inspectors. that is in violation of the agreement.

          • I don’t know, it’s hard to find a clear answer.

          • Openly opposing the united states in the General Assembly was not a wise thing to do. It has no force behind it and only tells us who our real friends are.

          • It shows more that American has less and less friends, and with that, less influence.

          • Good, they pay more and we save a few hundred million bucks each year. sounds like a win-win to me.

          • OK 👌

          • you seem stuck on this golf thing. Both of them did play and I have no problem with either doing that. BFD Trump worked that room like a pro and never wavered from his long time positions. Wall and more or no DACA.

          • It’s a ‘BFD’ because Trump made it that.
            And Trump said he would sign whatever they put in front of him.

          • Stick to the issues will. I do not think we will see any deal on DACA without the wall and more changes to immigration. These young people do not deserve special consideration just because they are young. They came or were brought here illegally. Build the wall, end chain migration and diversity lottery and allow the DACA to stay without citizenship. They can join those who are doing it legally for citizenship.

          • The Dreamers grow up in America, not kicking them out is hardly special treatment.

          • They broke the same law that their parents who brought them here broke. They pure and simple are not here legally and do not deserve special treatment due to their age. At the same time, I can see allowing them to stay with no amnesty and comprehensive immigration changes,,including eliminating chain migration, and the diversity lottery and increased border security including the wall. Only by doing that can we preclude winding up in 20 years exactly where we are now.

          • Why would you want to deport someone who only knows the country you’re trying to kick them out of?

          • like I said , in order to allow them to stay with no amnesty, major immigration reform must happen and the wall must be built. If they and their parents are deported, My conscience is clear. They are pure and simple here in violation of our laws and have gotten a free education to boot.

          • But the kids did not choose to break any laws? That’s like charging someone who was tricked into eating a pot brownie being charged with position of narcotics.

          • Their parents knew they were breaking laws and put their kids in this position. The oldest do remember their country. Those who were young children may not. They are still illegals and should not be granted amnesty. We need to do everything possible to close our borders to illegals and that does include the wall.

          • The border isn’t open.
            Undocumented immigrants has been going down for years.

          • Are you saying they were tricked into coming here and did not agree to the trip? Their parents caused them to violate immigration laws.

          • I’m saying it wasn’t their choice. It wasn’t my choice when I was two and my family moved.

          • Actually, China does have a lot of different immigrant group. They just have less. Also, China is more diverse then you may think. They have a regain called East Turkestan that majority Muslim.

          • Death panels. Bureaucrats making decisions on whether you get treatment. They kill Downs Syndrome babies . Please go to Canada or Venezuela or Cuba and don’t let the door hit you in the butt on your way out..

          • Death panels are B.S.!

          • My sister-in-law’s sister-in-law had a heart attack and had to wait three days for a heart cath. By then she had lost half her heart function. The average here in the US is 90 minutes, and usually it is much faster. (I had one done in a quarter of an hour!) Her mother waited two years for a hip replacement, bedridden all that time. Wasting away, she died soon after the operation because her health had degenerated due to inactivity. Another relative had a tumor on her lung. The doctors ignored it for three years. By then she had both lung cancer and brain cancer and was told the earliest appointment was six months away. She got an appointment in the US four days later, and had surgery on Thanksgiving day three days after that. Cost her the family farm. I could go on and on, but you get the picture. Delayed care does not count against the statistics. It’s not a bad outcome if they never treat it. Skewed statistics! Further, Canada doesn’t have the equipment or personnel so sends to hospice people we treat here in America. Because we can save sicker patients, we also lose more. Canada’s neglect of their patients makes their numbers better! None of this gets through the thick heads of our politicians. My sister-in-law is Canadian and knows both systems inside out. Trust me: if Canada’s system were better, she’d crow about it. Our system could be much, much better, if not for Byzantine government regulations that defy logic and the imagination. You have no idea, nor did I, for many years!

          • The problem with the U.S. is people are even in waiting.

          • Wait two months, or wait two years and go to hospice. Take your pick!

          • No, it’s wait, or nothing.

          • Move to Canada, fast, man, fast, get your bags and go!! Fly! The fewer politically correct idiots like yourself we have in America the better our lives here will be.

          • Nick, you owe cv an apology. Re-read his comment, please, carefully, especially the last line.

          • Perhaps, you misunderstood what cv said. His sister was trained in canada and works in the United states and she has said that health care is much better in the united states than it is in canada. She defends the system here. He does as well.

          • Sorry, terribly sorry “CV”. Misread your comment. I agree. The system in US, (as bas as it is) is better than Canada!

          • That’s okay, Nick! And our system is made far worse than need be by the federal government, which has created a gigantic number of onerous and complex regulations! Most people are unaware of what is happening in the background. I am aware because my wife has been a medical chief for decades, and I have also worked in the system, and been a frequent patient, as well! My sister-in-law, a Canadian-trained nurse who has now worked in the US for quite a while, has horror stories you wouldn’t believe. “The Canadian system is excellent, if you’re young and not very ill.”

          • Will, in America you can get medical attention for anything, even if you can’t pay, you cannot be turned away.

          • Then they make you pay later.

          • No, not if you can’t afford it. We have a hospital here in Dallas, Parkland, that is reimbursed by Texas for millions and millions for treatment given to those who can’t afford to pay. Look it up.

          • That sound a awful lot of universal healthcare?

          • Nope, it’s compassion. And like I said no one can be turned away from needing treatment because they can’t pay, that’s true at any hospital. Ever notice the names of many hospitals? They were founded by Christians.

          • You said the government reimbursed the hospital for those who can’t pay, that was the idea behind Obamacare.

          • Then what do you call it?

          • You are a brainwashed liberal. I’m done.

          • I asked a simple question?

          • ….which is a socialist TAX levied on everyone. Things were going fine before that nutcase concept. Many wound up with monthly taxation for it equal to a car or house payment. That’s one of the socialist stink bombs we got after that foreign student was illegally allowed to run for office. Those who violated Constitutional provisions and let his name be printed on ballots should each spend several years in a federal penitentiary.

          • Obama was born in Hawaii.
            And universal healthcare is the way to go. The answer is to fix the problems, and improve on the good parts.

          • Barack Hussein Obama, aka Barry Soetoro, was born in an African British Protectorate now known as Kenya. He was a foreign student in the USA therefore not qualified to be President of the United States. Socialism and communism do not work for the good of most of humanity. They demand a Godless society.

          • Everything Known about Obama indicates he was born in Hawaii.

          • Believe what you want to. The records show differently.

          • No, I’m going by the records.

          • That horse has been turned out to pasture. It no longer matters. where he was born. His mother was a citizen which made him a citizen. I doubt e was born in Hawaii, but no longer care. His birth certificate was a forgery.

          • He had no more interest in the good of the United States of America than Benedict Arnold or of Kim Jong Un. He is a citizen of a foreign nation. He IS a traitor.

          • Government does a poor job running anything and you want to give them control of 1/3 of our economy. Not the smartest idea that I have heard.

          • America is the only developed countries has universal healthcare.

          • Doing that would be the start of socialism. What would follow. Controlling that much would only lead to further intrusion into other areas. government does not do too many things well. What leads you to think this would be handled efficiently if happened.

          • Maybe make a government that’s better at running things.

          • Obamacare deals with the insurance side only, not the actual provision of health care. Very few hospitals get reimbursement for th free care.

          • Insurance is what reimburses hospitals.

          • How are hospitals paid for the medical care given to the uninsured or to those with no ability to pay?

          • Collection companies.

          • You really do live in some dream world, Collection companies can not collect money from someone who has no money and no income. The debts are written off.

          • They find ways to get they money.

          • Thanks for posting that fact Pro-Israel. Has anyone ever seen an Atheist Hospital? An Antifa Hospital? A BLM Hospital? A KKK Hospital? An Islamic/Muslim Hospital? A Satanist Hospital? An ACORN Hospital? A Wiccan Hospital?

          • You make a very good point. Thanks for the encouragement.

          • Just facts.

          • public hospitals will care for anyone regardless of ability to pay.

          • They still have to pay later.

          • Where do they suddenly get the money from to pay. The hospital absorbs the unpaid care or pass it on to other paying customers, or to the government that provides tax dollars to support.

          • Assuming that’s true, one location couldn’t possibly take care of everyone who can’t pay

          • In Dallas, there are many hospitals in the area, who can’t/won’t turn away anybody who needs treatment, able to pay or not!

          • Parkland Hospital is where JFK’s body was taken to an emergency department when he was shot.

          • Yes, it was closest. It is a huge complex nowadays.

          • sure you go to the ER for emergency care…but then what?

            You can’t walk into a hospital or doctors office and get free care…you have to have the ability to pay- cash or private insurance-Medicare/Medicade.

          • Don’t know where you live, but you can in Texas. There are free health clinics and clinics who accept Medicaid, which is for the low/no income. Medicare is for those retired or 65 or over and is a paid policy with some choices.

          • You are correct about the doctors office, but persons who go to emergency rooms can be admitted to the hospital if the illness or injury requires hospital treatment. I know dozens of people who have no insurance or means to pay themselves, but they are never denied medical treatment.

          • never said they would be denied treatment,just not long term.

          • Long term you can get help at the Federal clinics. Anything they can’t handle, they would send you to an ER. They’d admit you. Then there is medicare and medicaid for indigents.

          • “Long term you can get help at the Federal clinics.”
            1200 federal clinics can service 14 million people who don’t qualify for Medicaid? I don’t think so.

          • Currently they are under utilized. Note that even you didn’t know about them. Sure, 12000 each, most people aren’t sick every year. they could see 20 people a day and cover most of them. That’s easy. But you may not be aware that SS, Medicare, Medicaid are all underfunded and going to perdition. I have two jobs, work all the time, and pay a lot of money in taxes. I suggest you get more productive and pay your fair share.

          • If the person has terminal cancer or something similar, the hospital may not keep them after they are stabilized, but most medical care does not require long term hospital care. They are however kept as long as their condition remains threatening.

          • can you back that up with statistics or are you just applying the fantasy of “common sense”?

          • The child tax credit was doubled, so my logic says those with more children will save more. Single tax payers will likely see smaller savings, though the actual tax bracket may also change for some reflecting a lower % applied to taxable income. I can only say for sure that each person has to determine how they made our. In your case$20 for each of 52 weeks gives you $1040. You clearly can not retire with that , but it is money you did not have before.

          • You can go back to the ER, or you can go to one of 1200 Federal free clinics that pre-existed ACA by many years. The ACA was basically Obama’s big ego trip. It made things worse, not better, and government regulation has already created an awful mess. Most people are totally ignorant of just how bad it is.

          • Why don’t you treat yourself in a free clinic?!? Go to Venezuela, my friend, they have plenty of free clinics and in no time you will get hepatitis and AIDS just from the med. personnel there in your free clinics!!

          • That is why there are EMERGENCY ROOMS that have to take care of you or do you not understand the law ? Long treatments can also receive help without a phony TAX like ozerocare, or do you not remember that when the Supreme Court allowed it , it was only because only because it was a tax. Sorry Will Higgins but you are in a conversation waaaaay over your head and level of intelligence.

          • How would those patients pay their bills later?

          • most do not pay them and the hospital writes off those charges and do not hound the patient for payment.

          • If you have no funds, & you need treatment, ALL Clinics & hospitals must take care of you & NOT demand payment!

          • I don’t know which hospital you go to?

          • Every locality has a public hospital that will take in any patient regardless of ability to pay or insured. Some patients will try to pay when discharged, but hospital bills are high and the unpaid bills get passed on to patients who do have means to pay as somewhat increased charges. I have medicare and am very healthy and have never had need for hospital care. It is there though if I need it.

          • Since do Doctors not use collection agenacies?

          • The person up front usually checks for ability to pay in every doctors office. The doctor rarely gets stiffed for the cost of care.

          • I meant hospitals.

          • The key thing to remember is that not one single person who needs health care is denied that health care, regardless of ability to pay or insurance. granted the hospital will send bills out but they know fairly quickly that they will or will not be paid.

          • Then what about all the people who don’t get the healthcare they need?

          • I am curious about who did not get needed healthcare in this country. Elective surgery might not be available. The sick and injured are never turned down. They do have to go to the hospital to get the care, assuming they have no insurance or have no ability to pay.

          • All the people who only got covered because of Obamacare.

          • Many of those signed up due to the penalty for not signing up. That mandate is now gone.

          • It still got them covered.

          • yes and now they have the option they should always have had. They can purchase health insurance or not purchase it with no more penalty if they choose not to.

          • And less people in the market place will be bad for the rest.

          • Wal mart and ATT will likely absorb most of those being laid off and assist the rest in finding jobs. Those who end up without jobs will be far less than the 5 or 6 thousand who are being laid off. ATT has already announced plans to absorb most into other job openings. Wal Mart is a good employer and has thousands of stores to absorb the Sams Club employees that are laid off.

          • The number of lost jobs still add up.

          • For companies as large as ATT and Wal Mart are, I feel confident that no one will end up without a job. Att can easily absorb those laid off and Wal mart has a lot of stores to take on the Sams club lay offs. The bonuses and pay raises add up also.

          • Then why don’t they just transfer those employees?

          • No one has been laid off yet. Wal Mart has not even decided how many or even which Sams Club stores to close.

          • It’s going to be more then twenty.

          • Highside estimate is 63 Sams Club stores.

          • That’s a lot of lost jobs.

          • Wal Mart has more than 1.2 million jobs in their many stores. Those being laid off will get first crack at openings within wal mart. Very few if any will end up without a job.

          • 50+ stores sounds like a lot of employees to reabsorb?

          • After the transfers to distribution centers, there will be probably 3,500 to absorb. Wal Mart has more then 1,2000,000 jobs nationwide with openings in nearly every store. sounds reasonable to me.

          • I feel pretty confident that most if not all will find jobs with their current companies. I think I will trust these two companies to do the right thing and find jobs for those being laid off.

          • I really do not think that the federal government should be deciding what citizens purchase. The money belongs to the individual not the federal government.

          • Everyone need healthcare like they need other public services.

          • and everyone can get health care and no one is ever turned away.

          • My Mom has had a broken hearing for a couple of months down. She needs a hearing doctor to get it fixed, or get a new one, and he needs healthcare coverage for all that.

          • Obamacare was available until the enrollment closing, but the deductible might be higher than a new one. Most employers offer health insurance. Then there is Medicaid and extended medicaid.

          • That is like comparing apples to Oranges. Sometimes you eat one and sometimes you eat the other. Most public services are provided at the local level, not the federal level. Our federal government can not pay for what it provides now. Adding another expensive entitlement would not be the smart thing to do.

          • Again, other country already do.

          • WE can not afford the entitlement programs we have now, so you are suggesting just borrowing another couple trillion each year to pay for a new one. Health care is not nearly the problem you are trying to make it. No one is ever denied needed health care in this great country.

          • The reasons are quite different and in this country no person is ever denied needed health care. We need police for any number of reasons such as rape, robbery physical assault and more.

          • You also don’t need police to pick up trash, but you still pay taxes for garbage people.

          • Both of those are local responsibility . As for health care, even those who pay no tax and have no insurance can still get needed health care.

          • In most cities, a user fee is paid for trash and garbage pick up. some cities do it directly and some contract it out.

          • The hospitals sometimes do turn accounts over to collection agencies, but they write them off and know that the payment is not coming.

          • You and Taylor are 100% correct. Also, there is a nationwide system of free Federal health clinics. The ACA was an ego trip.

          • No hospital ever turns away a person who needs care. Operations are available there and the patient can return for a later review of progress. Insurance and health care are totally different. Health care is available for those who have insurance and for those who do not.

          • Then how to the one without insurance pay for it?

          • Some may try, but cost of hospital care is high and many who have limited funds and no insurance go to the emergency room and the attending physician there may decided that they need hospital care and admits them. The bill is likely never paid and the hospital will eventually just write it off as a bad debt.

          • on top of your head maybe

          • You wish!! The only point you have is: you proved that you are an uneducated idiot

          • Why don’t give a good counter argument then?

          • If you can read, you just go through dozens of comments here and you will see numerous counter arguments. I do not need to repeat what has been already said by many educated and intelligent others. You don’t know what socialism IS and what it BRINGS.
            I do.

          • Do you know what socialism is?

          • Yes, unfortunately I do, firsthand, and, as I already told you: you are an uneducated IDIOT!

          • Then what is socialism according to you?

          • Recommended reading for totally uneducated: THOMAS Di LORENZO “The Problem with Socialism” and do NOT BOTHER ME ANYMORE! I do not have time for idioits.

          • What George Orwell’s Th unicorn and the lion, Socialism and the English Genus?

          • under a socialist society , government runs everything and everyone works for the government. That is a simple description.

          • Actually socialism is the direct control of the means of production by the workers.

          • Yes you do , right at the top of your head ! You like other demorat cretins have some sort of warped idea that your talking points are more real than the facts.

        • Not only, but also a bona fide IDIOT!

          • Liberals offer no positive contributions. They pick out petty issues FOR ARGUMENT. They try to divert the issues being discussed off to essentially non-relevant picky details. There is a pattern.

      • Everybody wants a bigger paycheck… You think working harder makes you entitled to a larger paycheck?

        Does that mean that a person stronger than you that can shovel twice as fast deserves twice as much money as you?

      • We most certainly DO NOT call someone lazy when hard times come. They come to all of us throughout life. You will find Conservatives are the biggest givers while libs are the biggest takers. I personally, have helped many people. As for more in your paycheck, you earned it, ask for it and have the facts when you do. An honest employer will agree and do their best to give you a raise. Let me add here, when I needed a raise, I gave more to God. It never fails.